Favorite Bad Guys (NEWBIE-FRIENDLY THREAD) - Page 3

Embladyne · 01-29-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Don't you think if Saruman's a bad guy Denethor should be too? That's the only role he played in LotR, despite how unfortunately his mind was seized from him by Sauron.

Somehow, I still don't think of Denethor as a bad guy. I think of him more as someone who's reason had left him and who should have died earlier. But, then again, I think a lot of people in ME should have died sooner...

Bombadillo · 01-29-2005, 02:22 AM

But isn't that the same you'd classify Saruman? They were both corrupt by Sauron, and all that we saw of either of them in the books was bad. No one has so much mercy on Saruman, and he was probably the cooler of the two. (mad wizard)

Pytt · 01-29-2005, 11:37 AM

I don't know clearly. While Sarumann did quite a lot of bad actions, Denethor did none. Ok he thought of burning Faramir. they are both corrupted, but not in the same way. I don't know if I think Denethor should be considered a bad guy..

The Wizard from Milan · 01-29-2005, 11:55 AM

I do not think that Saruman and Denethor are to put in the same bin, so to speak.
Saruman was corrupted by the ring and sauron.
Denethor went mad because of Sauron.

Embladyne · 01-29-2005, 12:07 PM

I feel that the reason Sarumon and Denethor are not to be judged the same is because they are given different purposes in life. Sarumon was on a mission to prevent Sauron's Victory, and had been putting all his effort towards that before he succumbed. However, Denethor was a human who had other purposes in life. He wasn't given a divine mission. I wish he hadn't gone crazy, I wish a lot of things hadn't happened, but I have more mercy for his failure than Sarumon's. That said, I don't hate Sarumon, either, but he always seemed to have an ambition that put his own interests before the completion of his mission.

Gandalf The White Rider · 02-21-2005, 12:05 AM

mine is William from The Hobbit.

Lenya · 03-23-2005, 03:32 PM

Thanx Bombadillo for backing up my statement that Denethor is bad. Yes I totally agree that if you classify Saruman as evil, then Denethor is also evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pytt

I don't know clearly. While Sarumann did quite a lot of bad actions, Denethor did none. Ok he thought of burning Faramir. they are both corrupted, but not in the same way. I don't know if I think Denethor should be considered a bad guy..

Denethor wasn't exactly an angel. He stood aside and refused to raise one hand to help his people while he knew disaster was coming. He wouldn't let them prepare for attack or evacuate the women and children and he wouldn't send for Rohan. As stuard that was his duty.

Lenya · 03-23-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf The White Rider

mine is William from The Hobbit.

I don't remember there being a William.?

me9996 · 03-23-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenya

I don't remember there being a William.?

It's the name of one of the trolls.

Lenya · 03-23-2005, 04:05 PM

Oh. I've completely forgotten about them

cool, they were interesting.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 03-24-2005, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

But isn't that the same you'd classify Saruman? They were both corrupt by Sauron, and all that we saw of either of them in the books was bad. No one has so much mercy on Saruman, and he was probably the cooler of the two. (mad wizard)

Yes they were both corrupted by Sauron but in different. Saruman served Sauron (for a time) knowingly and willingly, but Denethor didn't even know that his actions were serving Sauron.

strider8 · 03-30-2005, 01:36 PM

My favourite evil character is probably The Mouth of Sauron.Bacause he is cool in an evil way.

Morgoth the Elfbit · 03-31-2005, 11:32 PM

I have to change my previous answer as Haradrim. My favorite baddie has to bve Shagrat. I like all the small evil characters. Shagrat, Gothmog. Not much is known about them but to me they just seem cool... in a cool sortof way.

Pytt · 04-01-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenya

Denethor wasn't exactly an angel. He stood aside and refused to raise one hand to help his people while he knew disaster was coming. He wouldn't let them prepare for attack or evacuate the women and children and he wouldn't send for Rohan. As stuard that was his duty.

Yes, so you could say he was indirectly evil. His actions, or lack of actions, turned out evil, but in them self they were not evil. But puting him wiht Sarumann is wrong, I mean.

Lenya · 04-01-2005, 03:32 PM

Like I said, he neglected his duties. As a steward, that is a no-no.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 04-02-2005, 03:35 AM

He only neglected them after he had been influenced by Sauron. At heart he was good but because of Sayuron he felt despair and that is probably his main fault.

Morgoth the Elfbit · 04-02-2005, 02:58 PM

I dont know TD for me that argument sounds a lot like. Well he was really good until he was influenced by thta evil man. I mean Sauron didnt turn you evil he actually made you evil. In my mind Denethor was as evil ass ay Saruman because he was a tool of Sauron even if he didnt knwo it.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 04-02-2005, 03:05 PM

But all he did was unintentional. He wasn't like Saruman who went about breeding orcs. I mean think of one pure evil deed he did intenionally that you can't think of a reasonable reason for.

Morgoth the Elfbit · 04-02-2005, 03:10 PM

He indirectly almost caused the fall of Minas Tirith.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 04-02-2005, 03:22 PM

denethor was not evil, he chose, even after being poisoned by sauron, to act in a way which he deemed good, still attempting to resist the threat of mordor, at the least remaining faithful to good over evil, whereas saruman chose to depart from the way of good, and join evil in it's entirety, even if he did betray sauron, he was still working for evil ends

01-29-2005, 02:22 AM	#42
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	But isn't that the same you'd classify Saruman? They were both corrupt by Sauron, and all that we saw of either of them in the books was bad. No one has so much mercy on Saruman, and he was probably the cooler of the two. (mad wizard) __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

01-29-2005, 11:37 AM	#43
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	I don't know clearly. While Sarumann did quite a lot of bad actions, Denethor did none. Ok he thought of burning Faramir. they are both corrupted, but not in the same way. I don't know if I think Denethor should be considered a bad guy.. __________________ Don't Panic!

01-29-2005, 12:07 PM	#45
Embladyne Honourary Elitist Inklette Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: between the mountains and the sea Posts: 704	I feel that the reason Sarumon and Denethor are not to be judged the same is because they are given different purposes in life. Sarumon was on a mission to prevent Sauron's Victory, and had been putting all his effort towards that before he succumbed. However, Denethor was a human who had other purposes in life. He wasn't given a divine mission. I wish he hadn't gone crazy, I wish a lot of things hadn't happened, but I have more mercy for his failure than Sarumon's. That said, I don't hate Sarumon, either, but he always seemed to have an ambition that put his own interests before the completion of his mission. __________________ Even on the pinnacle of a palace a crow does not become an eagle. My DA page

03-30-2005, 01:36 PM	#52
strider8 Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: In a spaceship, floating in your puny planet's atmosphere, awaiting orders to invade Posts: 292	My favourite evil character is probably The Mouth of Sauron.Bacause he is cool in an evil way. __________________ The axes hewed Forlong as he fought alone and unhorsed; and both Duilin of Morthond and his brother were trampled to death when they assailed the mumakil,leading their bowmen close to shoot at the eyes of the monsters. Neither Hirluin the fair would return to Pinnath Gelin, nor Grimbold to Grimslade, nor Halbarad to the northlands,dour-handed Ranger. Those that would not return home, page830-831, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, The Return of the King

03-31-2005, 11:32 PM	#53
Morgoth the Elfbit Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I split my time between Mordor and your Imagination Posts: 30	I have to change my previous answer as Haradrim. My favorite baddie has to bve Shagrat. I like all the small evil characters. Shagrat, Gothmog. Not much is known about them but to me they just seem cool... in a cool sortof way. __________________ Newly Reincarnated from Haradrim Here is my permanent apology for off-topicing. If I do it, which i will, I am sorry. I feel bad about it but being an elfbit messes with your head and things get wonky so spamming is almost inevitable. There will be good replys but for when I do off-topic I am deeply sorry. Offical title: Morgoth the Elfbit: Un-Official Court Jester of the Entmoot At Your Service.... BOW TO ME! Miranda Otto is hot! I Kinda Like Feanor.... (meep)

01-29-2005, 11:55 AM	#44
The Wizard from Milan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	I do not think that Saruman and Denethor are to put in the same bin, so to speak. Saruman was corrupted by the ring and sauron. Denethor went mad because of Sauron.

02-21-2005, 12:05 AM	#46
Gandalf The White Rider Sapling Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5	mine is William from The Hobbit.

03-23-2005, 04:05 PM	#50
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	Oh. I've completely forgotten about them cool, they were interesting.

04-01-2005, 03:32 PM	#55
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	Like I said, he neglected his duties. As a steward, that is a no-no.

04-02-2005, 03:35 AM	#56
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	He only neglected them after he had been influenced by Sauron. At heart he was good but because of Sayuron he felt despair and that is probably his main fault. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

04-02-2005, 02:58 PM	#57
Morgoth the Elfbit Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I split my time between Mordor and your Imagination Posts: 30	I dont know TD for me that argument sounds a lot like. Well he was really good until he was influenced by thta evil man. I mean Sauron didnt turn you evil he actually made you evil. In my mind Denethor was as evil ass ay Saruman because he was a tool of Sauron even if he didnt knwo it. __________________ Newly Reincarnated from Haradrim Here is my permanent apology for off-topicing. If I do it, which i will, I am sorry. I feel bad about it but being an elfbit messes with your head and things get wonky so spamming is almost inevitable. There will be good replys but for when I do off-topic I am deeply sorry. Offical title: Morgoth the Elfbit: Un-Official Court Jester of the Entmoot At Your Service.... BOW TO ME! Miranda Otto is hot! I Kinda Like Feanor.... (meep)

04-02-2005, 03:05 PM	#58
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	But all he did was unintentional. He wasn't like Saruman who went about breeding orcs. I mean think of one pure evil deed he did intenionally that you can't think of a reasonable reason for. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

04-02-2005, 03:10 PM	#59
Morgoth the Elfbit Hobbit Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: I split my time between Mordor and your Imagination Posts: 30	He indirectly almost caused the fall of Minas Tirith. __________________ Newly Reincarnated from Haradrim Here is my permanent apology for off-topicing. If I do it, which i will, I am sorry. I feel bad about it but being an elfbit messes with your head and things get wonky so spamming is almost inevitable. There will be good replys but for when I do off-topic I am deeply sorry. Offical title: Morgoth the Elfbit: Un-Official Court Jester of the Entmoot At Your Service.... BOW TO ME! Miranda Otto is hot! I Kinda Like Feanor.... (meep)

04-02-2005, 03:22 PM	#60
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	denethor was not evil, he chose, even after being poisoned by sauron, to act in a way which he deemed good, still attempting to resist the threat of mordor, at the least remaining faithful to good over evil, whereas saruman chose to depart from the way of good, and join evil in it's entirety, even if he did betray sauron, he was still working for evil ends

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Does a thread of the same topic already exists?	elixir	General Messages	16	08-20-2003 04:51 PM
The Strange Favorite Activity Thread	Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood	General Messages	51	03-08-2003 07:22 PM
An Open Letter/apology	Lady Midnight	General Messages	25	05-25-2002 06:18 PM