Legalization of Drugs Debate

[QueenAnnesLace]

Well actually yes SGH I do.I asked someone a few years ago. It loosens everything and without the paper it makes it stronger. It gives you a head rush.

[Ragnarok]

Here is some facts and statistics about the Drug War ...

Race, Prison and the Drug Laws

Of the 246,100 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses in 2001, 139,700 (56.7%) were black, 47,000 (19%) were Hispanic, and 57,300 (23.2%) were white.

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2002 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, July 2003), Table 15, p. 10.


"The racially disproportionate nature of the war on drugs is not just devastating to black Americans. It contradicts faith in the principles of justice and equal protection of the laws that should be the bedrock of any constitutional democracy; it exposes and deepens the racial fault lines that continue to weaken the country and belies its promise as a land of equal opportunity; and it undermines faith among all races in the fairness and efficacy of the criminal justice system. Urgent action is needed, at both the state and federal level, to address this crisis for the American nation."

Source: Key Recommendations from Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs (Washington, DC: Human Rights Watch, June 2000), from the web at http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/drugs/war/key-reco.htm


"Our criminal laws, while facially neutral, are enforced in a manner that is massively and pervasively biased. The injustices of the criminal justice system threaten to render irrelevant fifty years of hard-fought civil rights progress."

Source: Welch, Ronald H. and Angulo, Carlos T., Justice On Trial: Racial Disparities in the American Criminal Justice System (Washington, DC: Leadership Conference on Civil Rights / Leadership Conference Education Fund, May 2000), p. v.


"When total incarceration rates are estimated separately by age group, black males in their twenties and thirties are found to have high rates relative to other groups. Among the more than 2 million offenders incarcerated on June 30, 2002, an estimated 596,400 were black males between ages 20 and 39 (table 13).
"Among males age 25 to 29, 12.9% of blacks were in prison or jail, compared to 4.3% of Hispanics and about 1.6% of whites (table 14).
"Although incarceration rates drop with age, the percentage of black males age 45 to 54 in prison or jail in 2002 was an estimated 3.9% -- more than twice the highest rate (1.7%) among white males (age 30 to 34)."

Source: Harrison, Paige M., & Jennifer Karberg, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2002 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, April 2003), p. 11, Tables 13 & 14.


According to the US Census Bureau, the US population in 2000 was 281,421,906. Of that, 194,552,774 (69.1%) were white; 33,947,837 (12.1%) were black; and 35,305,818 (12.5%) were of Hispanic origin. Additionally, 2,068,883 (0.7%) were Native American, and 10,123,169 (3.8%) were Asian.

Source: US Census Bureau, Department of Commerce, Census 2000 Redistricting Data (P.L. 94-171) Summary File for states, Population by Race and Hispanic or Latino Origin for the United States: 2000 (PHC-T-a) Table 1, from the web at http://www.census.gov/population/cen...c-t1/tab01.txt , last accessed September 8, 2001.


Regarding State prison population growth from 1990 through 2000, the US Dept. of Justice reports, "Overall, the increasing number of drug offenses accounted for 27% of the total growth among black inmates, 7% of the total growth among Hispanic inmates, and 15% of the growth among white inmates (table 19)."

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2001 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, July 2002), p. 13.


According to the federal Household Survey, "most current illicit drug users are white. There were an estimated 9.9 million whites (72 percent of all users), 2.0 million blacks (15 percent), and 1.4 million Hispanics (10 percent) who were current illicit drug users in 1998." And yet, blacks constitute 36.8% of those arrested for drug violations, over 42% of those in federal prisons for drug violations. African-Americans comprise almost 58% of those in state prisons for drug felonies; Hispanics account for 20.7%.

Source: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Summary Report 1998 (Rockville, MD: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 1999), p. 13; Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics 1998 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, August 1999), p. 343, Table 4.10, p. 435, Table 5.48, and p. 505, Table 6.52; Beck, Allen J., Ph.D. and Mumola, Christopher J., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 1998 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, August 1999), p. 10, Table 16; Beck, Allen J., PhD, and Paige M. Harrison, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, August 2001), p. 11, Table 16.


Among persons convicted of drug felonies in state courts, whites were less likely than African-Americans to be sent to prison. Thirty-three percent (33%) of convicted white defendants received a prison sentence, while 51% of African-American defendants received prison sentences. It should also be noted that Hispanic felons are included in both demographic groups rather than being tracked separately so no separate statistic is available.

Source: Durose, Matthew R., and Langan, Patrick A., Bureau of Justice Statistics, State Court Sentencing of Convicted Felons, 1998 Statistical Tables (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, December 2001), Table 25, available on the web at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/scsc98st.htm, last accessed December 21, 2001.


"The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 686 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by the Cayman Islands (664), Russia (638), Belarus (554), Kazakhstan (522), Turkmenistan (489), Belize (459), Bahamas (447), Suriname (437) and Dominica (420).
"However, more than three-fifths of countries (62.5%) have rates below 150 per 100,000. (The United Kingdom's rate of 139 per 100,000 of the national population places it above the midpoint in the World List; it is now the highest among countries of the European Union.)"
Source: Walmsley, Roy, "World Prison Population List (Fourth Edition)" (London, England, UK: Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate, 2003), p. 1, from the web at http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf, last accessed April 29, 2003.

[Ragnarok]

(continued....)

According to the US Dept. of Justice, in the United States "The rate of incarceration in prison and jail in 2002 was 702 inmates per 100,000 US residents -- up from 690 at midyear 2001. At midyear 2002, 1 in every 142 US residents were in prison or jail." The incarceration rate for African-American women was 349 per 100,000; for African-American men, the rate was 4,810 per 100,000; the rate for Hispanic women was 137 per 100,000; for Hispanic men the rate was 1,740 per 100,000; The rate for white women was 68 per 100,000; and for white men the rate was 649 per 100,000.

Source: Harrison, Paige M., & Jennifer Karberg, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2002 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, April 2003), p. 2 & Table 14, p. 13.


At the start of the 1990s, the U.S. had more Black men (between the ages of 20 and 29) under the control of the nation's criminal justice system than the total number in college. This and other factors have led some scholars to conclude that, "crime control policies are a major contributor to the disruption of the family, the prevalence of single parent families, and children raised without a father in the ghetto, and the 'inability of people to get the jobs still available.'"

Source: Craig Haney, Ph.D., and Philip Zimbardo, Ph.D., "The Past and Future of U.S. Prison Policy: Twenty-five Years After the Stanford Prison Experiment," American Psychologist, Vol. 53, No. 7 (July 1998), p. 716.


1.46 million black men out of a total voting population of 10.4 million have lost their right to vote due to felony convictions.

Source: Thomas, P., "Study Suggests Black Male Prison Rate Impinges on Political Process," The Washington Post (January 30, 1997), p. A3.


"Thirteen percent of all adult black men -- 1.4 million -- are disenfranchised, representing one-third of the total disenfranchised population and reflecting a rate of disenfranchisement that is seven times the national average. Election voting statistics offer an approximation of the political importance of black disenfranchisement: 1.4 million black men are disenfranchised compared to 4.6 million black men who voted in 1996."

Source: Fellner, Jamie and Mauer, Marc, "Losing the Vote: The Impact of Felony Disenfranchisement Laws in the United States" (Washington, DC: Human Rights Watch & The Sentencing Project, 1998), p. 8. Election statistics cited are from the US Census Bureau, "Voting and Registration in the Election of November 1996" (p20-504), July 1998.


One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control.

Source: Mauer, M. & Huling, T., Young Black Americans and the Criminal Justice System: Five Years Later (Washington DC: The Sentencing Project, 1995).


"In 2001, the chances of going to prison were highest among black males (32.2%) and Hispanic males (17.2%) and lowest among white males (5.9%). The lifetime chances of going to prison among black females (5.6%) were nearly as high as for white males. Hispanic females (2.2%) and white females (0.9%) had much lower chances of going to prison."

Source: Bonczar, Thomas P., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Prevalence of Imprisonment in the US Population, 1974-2001," NCJ197976 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, August 2003), p. 8.


In 1986, before mandatory minimums for crack offenses became effective, the average federal drug offense sentence for blacks was 11% higher than for whites. Four years later following the implementation of harsher drug sentencing laws, the average federal drug offense sentence was 49% higher for blacks.

Source: Meierhoefer, B. S., The General Effect of Mandatory Minimum Prison Terms: A Longitudinal Study of Federal Sentences Imposed (Washington DC: Federal Judicial Center, 1992), p. 20.


Regardless of similar or equal levels of illicit drug use during pregnancy, black women are 10 times more likely than white women to be reported to child welfare agencies for prenatal drug use.

Source: Neuspiel, D.R., "Racism and Perinatal Addiction," Ethnicity and Disease, 6: 47-55 (1996); Chasnoff, I.J., Landress, H.J., & Barrett, M.E., "The Prevalence of Illicit-Drug or Alcohol Use during Pregnancy and Discrepancies in Mandatory Reporting in Pinellas County, Florida," New England Journal of Medicine, 322: 1202-1206 (1990).


Due to harsh new sentencing guidelines, such as 'three-strikes, you're out,' "a disproportionate number of young Black and Hispanic men are likely to be imprisoned for life under scenarios in which they are guilty of little more than a history of untreated addiction and several prior drug-related offenses... States will absorb the staggering cost of not only constructing additional prisons to accommodate increasing numbers of prisoners who will never be released but also warehousing them into old age."

Source: Craig Haney, Ph.D., and Philip Zimbardo, Ph.D., "The Past and Future of U.S. Prison Policy: Twenty-five Years After the Stanford Prison Experiment," American Psychologist, Vol. 53, No. 7 (July 1998), p. 718.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I have a question. You know those thin cigar looking things, Black and Milds? They use those a lot to make blunts. I have heard also that if you take out all the tobacco and this paper that's inside of them, and then put all the tobacco back, that it gives you a small kind of high. What's the deal on that, anyone know?

Hrmm, I never heard of that, I think by removing the "cancer paper" inside the black & milds and smoking the tobacco without that paper might get you "light-headed."

[Ragnarok]

Corruption of Law Enforcement Officers & Public Officials


A 1998 report by the General Accounting Office notes, "...several studies and investigations of drug-related police corruption found on-duty police officers engaged in serious criminal activities, such as (1) conducting unconstitutional searches and seizures; (2) stealing money and/or drugs from drug dealers; (3) selling stolen drugs; (4) protecting drug operations; (5) providing false testimony; and (6) submitting false crime reports."

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 8.


A 1998 report by the General Accounting Office cites examples of publicly disclosed drug-related police corruption in the following cities: Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, New Orleans, New York, Philadelphia, Savannah, and Washington, DC.

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 36-37.


Corruption caused by the illicit trade in narcotics is especially prevalent in some foreign countries. "In 1998, DEA reported that drug-related corruption existed in all branches of the [Colombian] government, within the prison system, and in the military... In November 1998, U.S. Customs and DEA personnel searched a Colombian Air Force aircraft in Florida and found 415 kilograms of cocaine and 6 kilograms of heroin."

Source: US General Accounting Office, Drug Control: Narcotics Threat from Colombia Continues to Grow (Washington, DC: USGPO, 1999), p. 15.


On average, half of all police officers convicted as a result of FBI-led corruption cases between 1993 and 1997 were convicted for drug-related offenses.

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 35.


As an example of police corruption, the GAO cites Philadelphia, where "Since 1995, 10 police officers from Philadelphia's 39th District have been charged with planting drugs on suspects, shaking down drug dealers for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and breaking into homes to steal drugs and cash."

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 37.


A 1998 report by the General Accounting Office notes, "Although profit was found to be a motive common to traditional and drug-related police corruption, New York City's Mollen Commission identified power and vigilante justice as two additional motives for drug-related police corruption."

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 3.


In New Orleans, 11 police officers were convicted of accepting nearly $100,000 from undercover agents to protect a cocaine supply warehouse containing 286 pounds of cocaine. The undercover portion of the investigation was terminated when a witness was killed under orders from a New Orleans police officer.

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 36.


A 1998 report by the General Accounting Office states, "The most commonly identified pattern of drug-related police corruption involved small groups of officers who protected and assisted each other in criminal activities, rather than the traditional patterns of non-drug-related police corruption that involved just a few isolated individuals or systemic corruption pervading an entire police department or precinct."

Source: General Accounting Office, Report to the Honorable Charles B. Rangel, House of Representatives, Law Enforcement: Information on Drug-Related Police Corruption (Washington, DC: USGPO, May 1998), p. 3.


The difficulty of maintaining an honest government while fighting a drug war was noted by the UN Drug Control Program in 1998: "In systems where a member of the legislature or judiciary, earning only a modest income, can easily gain the equivalent of some 20 months' salary from a trafficker by making one "favourable" decision, the dangers of corruption are obvious."

Source: United Nations International Drug Control Program, Technical Series Report #6: Economic and Social Consequences of Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking (New York, NY: UNDCP, 1998), p. 39.

[Valandil]

Definitely hear stories like this in Chicago. Even police officers who are also gang members.

To the issue of tobacco vs marijuana: I'm not fully informed on the actual dangers of each, but tobacco smokers generally smoke a lot more, don't they? And could THIS be a factor? *tries to imagine someone smoking 3 packs of joints per day * Also - perhaps tobacco does more physical harm - but does the marijuana do more harm to the mind?

Only asking cause I don't know.

[Radagast The Brown]

I found this in a site:

Smoking pure cannabis is more harmful to lungs than tobacco, a health charity is warning.

A study by the British Lung Foundation found that just three cannabis joints a day cause the same damage as 20 cigarettes.


It is vital that people are fully aware of the dangers so they can make an educated decision and know the damage they may be causing

Dr Mark Britton
And when cannabis and tobacco are smoked together, the effects are dramatically worse.

Evidence shows that tar from cannabis cigarettes contains 50% more cancer causing carcinogens than tobacco.

Dr Mark Britton, chairman of the British Lung Foundation, said: "These statistics will come as a surprise to many people, especially those who choose to smoke cannabis rather than tobacco in the belief it is safer for them.

"It is vital that people are fully aware of the dangers so they can make an educated decision and know the damage they may be causing."

Do you think it is correct? It sounds the opposite of what few 'mooters here said.

[Ragnarok]

The problem with smoking anything is it will produce tar when you burn and inhale whatever you are smoking.

Many people think smoking marijuana is just as harmful as
smoking tobacco, but this is not true. Those who hold that
marijuana is equivalent to tobacco are misinformed. Due to the
efforts of various federal agencies to discourage use of
marijuana in the 1970's the government, in a fit of "reefer
madness," conducted several biased studies designed to return
results that would equate marijuana smoking with tobacco smoking,
or worse.
For example the Berkeley carcinogenic tar studies of the
late 1970's concluded that "marijuana is one-and-a-half times as
carcinogenic as tobacco." This finding was based solely on the
tar content of cannabis leaves compared to that of tobacco, and
did not take radioactivity into consideration. (Cannabis tars do
not contain radioactive materials.) In addition, it was not
considered that:
1) Most marijuana smokers smoke the bud, not the leaf, of
the plant. The bud contains only 33% as much tar as tobacco.
2) Marijuana smokers do not smoke anywhere near as much as
tobacco smokers, due to the psychoactive effects of cannabis.
3) Not one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully
linked to marijuana use.
4) Cannabis does not contain nicotine, which may cause
cancer through it's breakdown products (N Nitrosamines.)
5) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of
the small air passageways in the lungs.
In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and
actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This
is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief.
Doctors have investigated whether marijuana may, in this respect,
be more effective than all of the prescription drugs on the market.
Studies even show that due to marijuana's ability to clear
the lungs of smog, pollutants, and cigarette smoke, it may
actually reduce your risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and lung
cancer. Smokers of cannabis have been shown to outlive non-
smokers in some areas by up to two years. Medium to heavy
tobacco smokers will live seven to ten years longer if they also
smoke marijuana.
Cannabis is also radically different from tobacco in that it
does not contain nicotine and is not addictive. The psychoactive
ingredient in marijuana, THC, has been accused of causing brain
and genetic damage, but these studies have all been disproven.
In fact, the DEA's own Administrative Law Judge Francis Young has
declared that "marijuana in its natural form is far safer than
many foods we commonly consume."

Here is the link, http://mojo.calyx.com/~umacrc/library/tobacco /

According to U.S. Surgeon General C. Everette
Koop (on national television, 1990) radioactivity, not tar,
accounts for at least 90% of all smoking related lung cancer.
Tobacco crops grown in the United States are fertilized by law
with phosphates rich in radium 226. In addition, many soils have
a natural radium 226 content. Radium 226 breaks down into two long
lived 'daughter' elements -- lead 210 and polonium 210. These
radioactive particles become airborne, and attach themselves to the
fine hairs on tobacco leaves.

[Millane]

Originally posted by QueenAnnesLace
I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana that smokes it along with tobacco. The most I've heard is people putting it in cigars and calling it a blunt.

hahaha i dont know anyone that smokes marijuana without tobacco, whether it is for a *filthy* joint or just a bong. Not really to stretch it out but it is much smoother to inhale, and it helps to burn the marijuana...
hahaha that sounds toooo good to be true Ragnarok.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I found this in a site:


Do you think it is correct? It sounds the opposite of what few 'mooters here said.

It doesn't say whether these were joints made with tobacco or not. Joints don't have filters, and people smoke them differently (inhaling deeper, holding it in longer, etc).

As for the mechanism by which smoking (tobacco or anything else) causes cancer, radioactive fertilisers notwithstanding, that's neither here nor there. We don't know the mechanism with any level of confidence; you can never say for sure what caused a particular case of cancer for this reason.

We only know the harmful effects of smoking cigarettes because of well-designed research that's looked at outcomes over a person's lifetime. The only way to prove definitively that smoking tobacco-free joints is harmful would be to do similar sorts of research, which needs proper funding and controls. Ironically, this less likely to happen, and much more difficult to do while it's illegal.

There is fairly good evidence to suggest that cannabis has adverse psychological effects: in particular, it's known to be associated with relapse amongst people with schizophrenic disorders.

[The Gaffer]

Just another quick thought on this, slightly off topic, being about education rather than legalisation, but anyway.

Given that drugs (legal and illegal) are part of our culture, it's an important life lesson to be able to put them in their place. For example, most people like a bit of booze now and then, and most people don't get nuggets every night and become alcoholics.

The science is quite vague in many important areas, and maybe we should be looking to art, specifically literature, to help educate our kids about what the risks are and when to know when enough is enough. I think these messages can have more impact when they come direct from the horse's mouth.

I'm thinking of books like Trainspotting and A Scanner Darkly here; what do people think of that idea? what books would you put on the reading list?

[QueenAnnesLace]

I've seen many documentaries about the effects of drugs and even alchohol. Some have drastically higher %'s of permanent brain damage. Some drugs for instance is cocaine and ecstacy?SP? Ecstacy has been proven to literally puts holes in your brain. Like it deteriorates the brain tissue causing lots of users to have seizers and even comas. I know a girl that died from using it. One minute she does it and a couple of days later she passes out. The doctor sent her home saying it was dehydration and to rest and drink plenty of fluids and then the next day she went into a coma and after a few weeks was taken off life support. Even alchohol can be very damaging. It hurts the kidney, liver, and stomach, just to name a few. True alchoholics tend to have a yellowing of the eyes after years of misuse. In a way it's ironic that alchohol is legal and many other drugs aren't. (not that I ever want them to legalize anything).

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Millane
hahaha i dont know anyone that smokes marijuana without tobacco, whether it is for a *filthy* joint or just a bong. Not really to stretch it out but it is much smoother to inhale, and it helps to burn the marijuana...
hahaha that sounds toooo good to be true Ragnarok.

Ewwww! I have smoked tons of pot, and NEVER did I ever gunk it up with gross tobacco! That would just ruin the taste, and you couldn't hold it down in your lungs long enough. I have never seen anyone do that either. Tobacco taste like dust, at least pot tastes like burning trash! If I was going to smoke anything, it would be pot, not tobacco.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
Just another quick thought on this, slightly off topic, being about education rather than legalisation, but anyway.

Given that drugs (legal and illegal) are part of our culture, it's an important life lesson to be able to put them in their place. For example, most people like a bit of booze now and then, and most people don't get nuggets every night and become alcoholics.

The science is quite vague in many important areas, and maybe we should be looking to art, specifically literature, to help educate our kids about what the risks are and when to know when enough is enough. I think these messages can have more impact when they come direct from the horse's mouth.

I'm thinking of books like Trainspotting and A Scanner Darkly here; what do people think of that idea? what books would you put on the reading list?

Willie Nelson...."There's a time and a place for everything"

[Millane]

Originally posted by Lizra
Ewwww! I have smoked tons of pot, and NEVER did I ever gunk it up with gross tobacco! That would just ruin the taste, and you couldn't hold it down in your lungs long enough. I have never seen anyone do that either. Tobacco taste like dust, at least pot tastes like burning trash! If I was going to smoke anything, it would be pot, not tobacco.

and let me guess, you smoked joints... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww (X200 )

[Ragnarok]

People who say that pot is just as bad as smoking tobacco are completely wrong. Smoking pot, tobacco or anything else will damage your lungs because whenever you smoke something and inhale, it produces the tar that gets in your lungs. However, cigarettes have nicotine and several other toxins (over 75 I think) which marijuana doesn't contain. In that article I posted above shows research that:

According to U.S. Surgeon General C. Everette
Koop (on national television, 1990) radioactivity, not tar,
accounts for at least 90% of all smoking related lung cancer.
Tobacco crops grown in the United States are fertilized by law
with phosphates rich in radium 226. In addition, many soils have
a natural radium 226 content. Radium 226 breaks down into two long lived 'daughter' elements -- lead 210 and polonium 210. These radioactive particles become airborne, and attach themselves to the fine hairs on tobacco leaves.

[Radagast The Brown]

The effects of marijuana... and no, I don't think it's with tobacco. And I'm not trying to compare it to cigarettes - even though I think it's worse. And i'm against cigarettes as well. Anyway, this is what I found:

Although marijuana has not been proven to be physically addicting, and no physical withdrawl symptoms occur when its use is discontinued, psychological dependence does develop. Many users describe two phases of marijuana intoxication: initial stimulation, giddiness and euphoria, followed by sedation and pleasant tranquility. Mood changes are often accompanied by altered perceptions of time and space and of one's bodily dimensions. The thinking process becomes disrupted by fragmented ideas and memories. Many users report increased appetite, heightened sensory awareness and pleasure. Negative effects can include confusion, acute panic reactions, anxiety attacks, fear, a sense of helplessness and loss of self-control.

Chronic marijuana users are said to develop an "amotivational syndrome" characterized by passivity, decreased motivation and preoccupation with drug taking. The relationship of this syndrome to marijuana use, however, has no been established. Like alcohol intoxication, marijuana intoxication impairs reading comprehension, memory, speech, problem-solving ability and reaction time. The effects of long-term use are unknown. Consistent evidence that marijuana induces or causes brain damage does not exist. Medical researchers are studying the effectiveness of the drug in relieving some of the symptoms of glaucoma and in treating the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy and radiation treatments.

[Insidious Rex]

One joint is worse for you the one cigerette. This is basically because joints dont have filters. BUT the fact is very few people smoke 3 packs of joints a day but cigerette smokers tend to often smoke in large numbers so the damage caused by tobacco adds up quickly.

Any time you combust organic matter into your lungs you are asking for trouble. You can smoke dog crap and give yourself cancer. The lungs werent designed to take such things in in such a form. But if you just smoke pot once in a while then yer by far better off then if you smoke a pack of cigeretts a day. And this is independent of the awful additives and fillers they put in cigerettes to keep you addicted.

[Hawklan]

Just like to add my 2 pennys worth...

Dont get hung up on the Tobacco thing, I know plenty of pot smokers who use a pipe because they wont go near tobacco.

I think you have to seperate levels of danger with drugs - its only culture tradition and timing that make some drugs "bad" whilst others are socially acceptable...we all the know the dangers of tobacco, but because the Government make zillions of squids in tax, they really cant be bothered with banning it.

Its nice to take a step sideways sometimes when the stresses and strains ..blah blah blah...if i want to relax with a pipe or two, am I some sort of deviant or bad person ? If on the other hand I became addicted to smack and sold my soul ( and every other thing I can get my hands on ...as in mugging pensioners, stealing from parents etc )to the dealers, I would be out of control and should be locked away for a touch of cold turkey...the more painful the better.

It may well be hypocritical but I would quite gladly put the majority of smackheads against a wall and shoot them - whilst toking on a spliff.

This is the seperate levels thing....I work and pay my dues to society, I just happen to like some pot occasionally...You cant do that with smack, its insideous and ends up dominating your life...everything is about the next hit and nothing or noboddy will get in your way.

There will always be losers in life - smackheads rarely work, dont add to society, will rob the houses of the citizens who go to work every day and sell prized and priceless personal possesions for a couple of quid with no remorse.

Line them up against the wall.....

[Millane]

Hawklan you speak of smack as if from experiance, get in line while i load my gun just curious what do you "add" to society (apart from some ****ed up form of justice )