Eol - Page 3

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:17 AM

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Ensnaring, and entrapping DOES NOT make someone evil.

What it make them? ( besides ensarers and entrappers?)

BeardofPants · 08-17-2002, 04:20 AM

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Originally posted by afro-elf

What it make them? ( besides ensarers and entrappers?)

I'd say that it made them a normal bloody male!

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:20 AM

BoP

Nice to see you fired up again

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 04:20 AM

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Originally posted by BeardofPants
Ensnaring, and entrapping DOES NOT make someone evil.

EG, I don't get you. You think that Feanor isn't evil, but Eol is?! Sorry, but where's the reasoning in that?

Yes, as far as I am concerned it does. How would you feel if someone ensared and entrapped you when you were lost? He took advantage of her, in some way. Not a nice thing to do. Not to mention it eventually caused the fall of Gondolin...not that he was planning that, though he did hate the Noldor. Bitter guy.

Okay, perhaps I have a skewed perspective on the matter. I know it's odd, but I think it's what characters I identify with. I definitely identify with Feanor. Older sibling, who wants all the parent's attention. Very prideful and selfish. Etc. I am a bit like him in that regard. I identify less with the people his actions affected...okay, not quite, because his actions affected everyone. But I can see making those compulsive, selfish, vain decisions that end up really harming other people (fear me). Anyway, about Eol, well, I also identify more with Aredhel, or at least Aredhel before she meets Eol. Feeling caged, etc. I know I would be really, really mad if someone did that to me--entrapping me and all. I know it doesn't quite make sense, that I say Eol is a villain and Feanor is not.

Blackheart · 08-17-2002, 04:21 AM

Yah- ain't you never bought a girl a shot of tequila?

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 04:22 AM

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Originally posted by BeardofPants

I'd say that it made them a normal bloody male!

Please...I'm going to end up hating males again if this continues

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:22 AM

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Originally posted by BeardofPants

I'd say that it made them a normal bloody male!

Actually, aren't those female typical FEMALE M.O.'s

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:24 AM

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Please...I'm going to end up hating males again if this continues

Again

You mean you stopped?

BeardofPants · 08-17-2002, 04:27 AM

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Yes, as far as I am concerned it does. How would you feel if someone ensared and entrapped you when you were lost? He took advantage of her, in some way. Not a nice thing to do. Not to mention it eventually caused the fall of Gondolin...not that he was planning that, though he did hate the Noldor. Bitter guy.

There is a *very* good reason why he is antsy about the Noldor, let us not forget.

I'd damned well rather be entrapped and ensnared - who knows, I might enjoy it - than brutally murdered, or held to a doom-fulled oath. The lesser of the evils, wouldn't you say?

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:29 AM

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The lesser of the evils, wouldn't you say?

Still evil though.

Hey BoP. I like it when you are hot and bothered.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 04:30 AM

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Originally posted by afro-elf

Again You mean you stopped?

Well, perhaps my hatred decreased by a significant amount for a while...

BoP--all the Sindar, it seemed, had 'issues' with the Noldor, and yes for good reason. But I think Eol perhaps rather overdid it?

Okay, I wouldn't want to be entrapped and ensnared. Personally, I would rather be murdered. I don't know about being held to a doomed oath, though.

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:33 AM

Most of the Sindar not all. Also, it was more with the Fearnorians as opposed to the Noldor.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 04:34 AM

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Originally posted by afro-elf
Most of the Sindar not all. Also, it was more with the Fearnorians as opposed to the Noldor.

Right, most of the Sindar. But Eol hated all the Noldor, not just Feanor and his people.

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:36 AM

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But Eol hated all the Noldor, not just Feanor and his people

Yup.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 04:42 AM

...which is part of my point. He had a reason for bitterness where the Feanorians were concerned, but not all the Noldor. And why, if he was so resentful of them, did he marry one?

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 04:50 AM

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And why, if he was so resentful of them, did he marry one?

When booty err.. love calls....

BeardofPants · 08-17-2002, 05:01 AM

So he was a racist git, does that make him evil? Nope.

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Hey BoP. I like it when you are hot and bothered.

Who said anything about hot and bothered?

Now just step into this little chamber here...

Eruviel Greenleaf · 08-17-2002, 01:09 PM

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Originally posted by BeardofPants
So he was a racist git, does that make him evil? Nope.

He was more than that. He was, I think, too bitter. He had reason for some of his bitterness and resentment, true, but there's a point where it gets to be enough that you have to question...er...anyway...

Another point. He kept Aredhel and Maeglin essentially without any freedom, but when his freedom was taken away, in Gondolin when Turgon gave him the choice of remaining there or death, he became very angry. Obviously, anyone would be, but he had no thought of what he had done to others, only of himself and his 'property' (wife and son). Wait, did I have a point? Sort of, but I think it got lost somewhere; his actions here, though not admirable, are logical...sort of.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 08-17-2002, 01:15 PM

EG, when Melian enchanted Thingol and caused many of the Teleri to miss the summons of the Valar, did that make her evil? Furthermore, I don't think that it was Eol's coming to Gondolin that caused the fall of that city. It was more due to Turgon's pride and refusing to hear the words of Tuor from Ulmo.

What I want to know is why Turgon reluctantly allowed Aredhel to leave Gondolin in the first place. This defies his own law and making an allowance just because she was his sister is no excuse and was just as risky had he allowed Eol to depart. Turgon had no way of knowing if Aredhel had been spotted leaving Gondolin the first time, or upon her return with Meaglin, or upon Eol's arrival. So what was one more time? However, it still would not have worked that way because Eol was determined to take Meaglin with him, and Meaglin was unwilling, so he would have still tried to kill him inspite of anything Turgon did.

afro-elf · 08-17-2002, 01:24 PM

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when Melian enchanted Thingol and caused many of the Teleri to miss the summons of the Valar, did that make her evil?

Interesting thought that I had never entertained.

Evil nah! Just a selfish !@#$%^&*.

Like I said

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Ensnaring, and entrapping

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Actually, aren't those female typical FEMALE M.O.'s

08-17-2002, 04:20 AM	#43
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	BoP Nice to see you fired up again __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-17-2002, 04:21 AM	#45
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Yah- ain't you never bought a girl a shot of tequila? __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

08-17-2002, 04:33 AM	#52
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Most of the Sindar not all. Also, it was more with the Fearnorians as opposed to the Noldor. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-17-2002, 04:42 AM	#55
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	...which is part of my point. He had a reason for bitterness where the Feanorians were concerned, but not all the Noldor. And why, if he was so resentful of them, did he marry one? __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

08-17-2002, 01:15 PM	#59
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	EG, when Melian enchanted Thingol and caused many of the Teleri to miss the summons of the Valar, did that make her evil? Furthermore, I don't think that it was Eol's coming to Gondolin that caused the fall of that city. It was more due to Turgon's pride and refusing to hear the words of Tuor from Ulmo. What I want to know is why Turgon reluctantly allowed Aredhel to leave Gondolin in the first place. This defies his own law and making an allowance just because she was his sister is no excuse and was just as risky had he allowed Eol to depart. Turgon had no way of knowing if Aredhel had been spotted leaving Gondolin the first time, or upon her return with Meaglin, or upon Eol's arrival. So what was one more time? However, it still would not have worked that way because Eol was determined to take Meaglin with him, and Meaglin was unwilling, so he would have still tried to kill him inspite of anything Turgon did.