Are Ents immortal? - Page 3

BeardofPants · 01-11-2003, 04:41 PM

Main Entry: 1im·mor·tal
Pronunciation: (")i-'mor-t&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin immortalis, from in- + mortalis mortal
Date: 14th century
1 : exempt from death <the immortal gods>
2 : exempt from oblivion : IMPERISHABLE <immortal fame>
3 : connected with or relating to immortality

As you can see, neither of these are true of elves, or ents. Therefore, they are not technically immortal.

Falagar · 01-11-2003, 04:53 PM

I'm not very technical

Dúnedain · 01-11-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Main Entry: 1im·mor·tal
Pronunciation: (")i-'mor-t&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin immortalis, from in- + mortalis mortal
Date: 14th century
1 : exempt from death <the immortal gods>
2 : exempt from oblivion : IMPERISHABLE <immortal fame>
3 : connected with or relating to immortality

As you can see, neither of these are true of elves, or ents. Therefore, they are not technically immortal.

Stop over-analyzing this! lol

/me kicks BoP in the shins and runs away snickering

BeardofPants · 01-11-2003, 05:14 PM

Ah, bite me.

PS: Kicks Dúnedain.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-11-2003, 05:36 PM

Well I agree with you BoP, that's what my Mom says too. (Doesn't kick anyone.)

entss89 · 01-11-2003, 07:58 PM

I BELIEVE THEY COULD DIE !

FattyBulger · 01-13-2003, 10:57 PM

Ents aren't immortal, to keep thier race going, they need to find entwives

Dunadan · 01-16-2003, 11:07 AM

The bit in the Silmarillion says that Yavanna's thoughts on protecting olvar and kelvar (from being trashed by Dwarves and Men) caused "spirits to be summoned from afar", so she didn't create them, just summoned them. Which is nicely vague, and makes me think the Ents were more like Tom Bombadil in origin than they were like Elves. It also suggests that they were at least as immortal as the Elves.

Similarly, though Aule made the Dwarves, he didn't give them life and free will. What's different about the Dwarves is that the Silmarillion specifically states that Eru gave the Dwarves their spirits.

cheers

d.

congressmn · 01-20-2003, 12:11 PM

I have killed two Ents and three Ent wives my self.
Call them immortal.

i'm just kidding.

They keep changing into trees and the trees keep changing into the Ents. Quite a process.

The new question arises:
"Are trees immortal?"

Now who's to say affirm that?

Noahamir · 01-20-2003, 05:02 PM

I thought Treebeard said that the Elves taught them how to talk, which is quite different from bringing them to life.

I wonder if the Ents fading in the Fourth Age had to do with the magic leaving Middle Earth with the Elves.

But I think that the life span of an Ent depends solely on whether they can stay interested in the World around them. In other words, they stay entish as long as want.

Their problem is that they frown on the one thing that extends their life, being "Hasty"!

FrodoFriend · 01-20-2003, 05:10 PM

Maybe the Middle Earth Dictionary has a different definition of immortal . . .

**Nurvingiel** · 01-21-2003, 12:29 AM

Maybe as long as your spirit is immortal, you are immortal. How much does your body really matter anyway?

FrodoFriend · 01-21-2003, 02:07 PM

It allows you to drool over Frodo. No body, no drool.

Arien the Maia · 01-24-2003, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
...and this thread brings us to another question: where do the Ents go when they're slain? Aman?

I have always thought that when Yavanna brought to Eru her concern about the kelvar and the olvar that Eru said he would summon spirits from afar...in my mind this signifys some type of Ainur...possibly still dwelling in the Timeless halls with Eru

**Nurvingiel** · 01-24-2003, 03:10 PM

I hope this is true because the Ents and Entwives could finally be together again.

ArwenEvenstar · 01-24-2003, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
It allows you to drool over Frodo. No body, no drool.

*hands FF a napkin, takes napkin back and hands over a TOWEL*

heehee go HHGTG!

dragonlilly · 01-28-2003, 08:55 PM

dunadan your words on Tom Bombadil and Yavanna helped put my thoughts together..thank you.

I was thinking that Tom Bombadil and the Ents are alike in that their origins are vague indeed. Also they are not of middle earth but are now connected in a way no other beings are. Tom tells the hobbits that he came before all else. so, in a sense did treebeard. the ring had no pwer over Tom Bombadil and he had no fear of Sauron himself only what darkness would mean to all middle earth. the ents did not fear the ring nor had much concern for Sauron, only what Saruman was doing to his tree friends.

the end of an ents tree form may only come with the end of middle earth. and then the ent's spirits may serve some other creation of eru and meet Tom and Goldberry there too.

anarion · 01-29-2003, 03:36 AM

I don't think that ents are mortal, or immortal, but unmortal.

If they do not live as we do, then how can they die as we do?

congressmn · 01-29-2003, 11:03 AM

My theory is: Anything that takes birth has to have death.

Why are we arguing about this? No where in the book does Tolkien say anything about the permanence of the Ents.

All he states is that there is a relatively quick process of transformation of the Ents into the trees.

Agreed that he says that they are from ancient times, and have survived all those years. But there is no real immortality about them. Things are just too slow for them. There life-cycle is perhaps so long that it gives us the impression that they are immortal.

The Lady of the Wood · 01-29-2003, 02:14 PM

i dont think they are immortal

01-11-2003, 04:41 PM	#41
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Main Entry: 1im·mor·tal Pronunciation: (")i-'mor-t&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Latin immortalis, from in- + mortalis mortal Date: 14th century 1 : exempt from death <the immortal gods> 2 : exempt from oblivion : IMPERISHABLE <immortal fame> 3 : connected with or relating to immortality As you can see, neither of these are true of elves, or ents. Therefore, they are not technically immortal. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-11-2003, 04:53 PM	#42
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	I'm not very technical __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

01-11-2003, 05:14 PM	#44
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Ah, bite me. PS: Kicks Dúnedain. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

01-11-2003, 07:58 PM	#46
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	I BELIEVE THEY COULD DIE ! __________________ ( tune: im a little teapot) im a little hobbit short and stout here is my ring evil without a doubt when you get me hipped up here me shout get me to mordo as quick as you can.. if you like that song then you should visit www.lordoftherings.net! the ents are coming the ents are coming watch out tower of orthanc for your dark walls shall fall! sauroman, sauroman your name is not the white! for now you are sauroman of many colors! a best frind does not stab u in the back................... they stab u in the front.

01-13-2003, 10:57 PM	#47
FattyBulger Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 22	Ents aren't immortal, to keep thier race going, they need to find entwives __________________ Georgia Productions

01-16-2003, 11:07 AM	#48
Dunadan The Quite Querulous Quendi Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oxon, UK Posts: 638	The bit in the Silmarillion says that Yavanna's thoughts on protecting olvar and kelvar (from being trashed by Dwarves and Men) caused "spirits to be summoned from afar", so she didn't create them, just summoned them. Which is nicely vague, and makes me think the Ents were more like Tom Bombadil in origin than they were like Elves. It also suggests that they were at least as immortal as the Elves. Similarly, though Aule made the Dwarves, he didn't give them life and free will. What's different about the Dwarves is that the Silmarillion specifically states that Eru gave the Dwarves their spirits. cheers d.

01-20-2003, 12:11 PM	#49
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	I have killed two Ents and three Ent wives my self. Call them immortal. i'm just kidding. They keep changing into trees and the trees keep changing into the Ents. Quite a process. The new question arises: "Are trees immortal?" Now who's to say affirm that?

01-20-2003, 05:02 PM	#50
Noahamir Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 29	I thought Treebeard said that the Elves taught them how to talk, which is quite different from bringing them to life. I wonder if the Ents fading in the Fourth Age had to do with the magic leaving Middle Earth with the Elves. But I think that the life span of an Ent depends solely on whether they can stay interested in the World around them. In other words, they stay entish as long as want. Their problem is that they frown on the one thing that extends their life, being "Hasty"!

01-20-2003, 05:10 PM	#51
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Maybe the Middle Earth Dictionary has a different definition of immortal . . . __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-21-2003, 02:07 PM	#53
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	It allows you to drool over Frodo. No body, no drool. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-28-2003, 08:55 PM	#57
dragonlilly Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4	dunadan your words on Tom Bombadil and Yavanna helped put my thoughts together..thank you. I was thinking that Tom Bombadil and the Ents are alike in that their origins are vague indeed. Also they are not of middle earth but are now connected in a way no other beings are. Tom tells the hobbits that he came before all else. so, in a sense did treebeard. the ring had no pwer over Tom Bombadil and he had no fear of Sauron himself only what darkness would mean to all middle earth. the ents did not fear the ring nor had much concern for Sauron, only what Saruman was doing to his tree friends. the end of an ents tree form may only come with the end of middle earth. and then the ent's spirits may serve some other creation of eru and meet Tom and Goldberry there too.

01-29-2003, 03:36 AM	#58
anarion Enting Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Born in Lousiville, KY. Living in Laguna, Philippines Posts: 55	re: I don't think that ents are mortal, or immortal, but unmortal. If they do not live as we do, then how can they die as we do?

01-29-2003, 11:03 AM	#59
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	My theory is: Anything that takes birth has to have death. Why are we arguing about this? No where in the book does Tolkien say anything about the permanence of the Ents. All he states is that there is a relatively quick process of transformation of the Ents into the trees. Agreed that he says that they are from ancient times, and have survived all those years. But there is no real immortality about them. Things are just too slow for them. There life-cycle is perhaps so long that it gives us the impression that they are immortal. __________________ i am nothing. i am a cold stone, which deceives with the light it reflects, giving illusions of warmth.

01-29-2003, 02:14 PM	#60
The Lady of the Wood Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the dark side of the moon Posts: 89	i dont think they are immortal

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