Breaking of the Fellowship

[Beleg Strongbow]

It seems to me that while Gimli and Legolas perhaps could have afforded to chase after M&P, the best strategy for Aragorn would have been to follow S&F.
After all, a Ranger hardly sacrifices stealth points, and you can't deny that Aragorn could help against Shelob or in the Tower.
Also, if you're willing to accept the movie as a canonical source, you know that Aragorn can fight a whole bunch of Orcs and come away unscathed. When S&F encounter the Orc 'slave train' in Gorgoroth, Aragorn could have taken them (certainly with G&L).

[Beleg Strongbow]

Of course, that's almost all hindsight. Still, I think Aragorn should have decided to go along by himself at least.
That probably would have doomed the Quest to disaster but he definately couldn't have known that.

[barrelrider110]

Aragorn's choice to follow the Orcs with Merry and Pippin does fly in the face of reason, but I thought that the choice was Frodo's not Aragorn's. Frodo decidecd to go to Mordor himself, and he only let Sam follow him. Aragorn might have chosen differently if Sam was not with Frodo, I don't think he would have let Frodo go alone.

If events are to take the right path, then Aragorn must have faith in the choice of the ringbearer. He also suspects that there are forces affecting events that were beyond his control.

Nonetheless, Aragorn second guesses himself: "all my choices have gone ill." It's a mighty gamble, a leap of faith on Aragorn's part.

What I don't understand is why they took so long to give Boromir a "proper send-off." That was a huge waste of time.

[Elf Girl]

Good point! Aragorn was willing to respect Frodo's decision not to endanger his friends. (besides Sam)

[azalea]

Right, that's what I said somewhere earlier. Aragorn didn't KNOW if it was the right decision, but if Frodo was determined to go alone, he had to trust that decision. I'm sure he had to have faith if Gandalf thought Frodo an acceptable ringbearer; he must trust that if they go w/ their "gut feeling", things will turn out as well as they can.

[Tiggy Tamal]

as barrelrider110 quotes, aragorn's thinks his choices have all gone wrong. and as far as i remember he had no clue how to enter mordor.

maybe he decided to follow m&p because he knew how to do that. given two (or maybe three) choices he took one which didn't look selfish (like running to gondor) but the one he had an idea how to accomplish.

why follow someone who wants to go off alone, if you don't know how to help him once you catch up with him

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Harad
Earniel: (How do you get your accent above the "a"?)
Of course Sam was a mortal, and Frodo trusted him despite what Bilbo had done in Rivendell. Frodo had decided to go entirely alone but was happy when Sam ignored THAT decision. Aragorn had accompanied Frodo and the OneRing from Bree to Rivendell and saved them at Weathertop, not to mention in the Wilderness. There is never any question in the book of Frodo trusting Aragorn. That is played up in the movie, but even then Frodo accepts Aragorn at the end (IMO). In light of F&S being completely lost in the Emyn Muil and Dead Marshes, don't you think they would have preferred Aragorn catching up to them instead of Gollum?

The ¨ is on my key board, it is used in my language.

Yes Frodo trusted Aragorn, no doubt about it. But they were still far from their destination. Could Frodo trust him then too? No doubt he had trusted Boromir. He might not have know him that much as Frodo knew Aragorn but they did spend a few months hiking together. Boromir's betrayal may have shaking Frodo enough not to trust any human lightly near the ring. Hobbits are more resilliant ot the ring. They knew it even then. So Sam was hardly a risk in my view.

They would definately have prefered Aragorn as company above Gollum. Question is: Could they take the chance? If it came to that the two hobbits could have handled gollum, I doubt they could have handled Aragorn is he was taken over by the ring.

Another question seems appropriate, did Aragorn have any chance to catch up with Sam and Frodo? In the movie he sees them on the other bank. In the book this is not. He would have had to guess where they went ashore. This would take time, time they didn't really have.

[Menelvagor]

Hm, well, I've posted my views (maybe more than was welcome ) but the only alternate option I could see Aragorn making was posted by Beleg Strongbow: Aragorn sending Legolas and Gimli after Pip and Merry and going himself after Frodo.

Harad: So, what is your opinion of all this? What do you think he should have done? (Ok, we know you would've had Aragorn follow Frodo, but what about Legolas and Gimli?)

[barrelrider110]

originally posted by Eärniel:

did Aragorn have any chance to catch up with Sam and Frodo? In the movie he sees them on the other bank. In the book this is not. He would have had to guess where they went ashore. This would take time, time they didn't really have.

I think so. Aragorn was a ranger, skilled at tracking in the wild. Also, someone named "Strider" would have caught up with Frodo and Sam in short order.

I think that Aragorn was trusting Frodo's wisdom in going into Mordor only with Sam, and perhaps took it as a sign that his destiny lied along another path.

But what if Aragorn had sent Gimli and Legolas after M & P as Beleg Strongbow suggests? What do you think would have happened?

Personally, I think Gollum would not have trusted Aragorn, and they would not have known about the secret way under the pass at Cirith Ungol, or if they did, Shelob would have killed Aragorn.

[Beleg Strongbow]

if we're all hypothetical here...
and we have A,S,&F plus Gollum...

I think that Gollum, knowing that Aragorn could defeat his plans to murder S&F, would either lead them on a suicidal trail through the Dead Marshes so that Aragorn falls in, or try to strangle 'gorn in his sleep.

[Beleg Strongbow]

If Gimli and Legolas went after M&P:
Since they didn't have A doing their tracking they would be slower. They would not reach the site of the battle. Impatient, Gandalf would have taken Shadowfax to meet them. They would have done the same thing from there on, but perhaps more soldiers of Rohan would die at Helm's Deep because of the lack of help from Aragorn.

S&F plus A?
not sure. see above post, maybe.

[azalea]

I think things would have turned out much differently if A. had been w/ them. They may not have had as hard a time at first, and if Gollum had ended up with them at all, A. may not have let him guide them. A. may have tried a way in the "front". Who knows?

[Elf Girl]

Legolas and Gimli would not go after Merry and Pippin if Aragorn was going with Frodo and co. He would have to tie them up and leave them for the orcs to keep them from coming.

[Menelvagor]

No, I think it would've worked. It makes sense that Aragorn being the obvious person for the job would go after F&S and I think Legolas and Gimli would've understood if they were asked to go after Merry and Pippin. Gimli was the one that brought up their plight in the first place and seemed the most concerned.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by barrelrider110
I think so. Aragorn was a ranger, skilled at tracking in the wild. Also, someone named "Strider" would have caught up with Frodo and Sam in short order.

Yes, but there was a river between them. I still have to meet the first guy who can find tracks on water.

Originally posted by barrelrider110
I think that Aragorn was trusting Frodo's wisdom in going into Mordor only with Sam, and perhaps took it as a sign that his destiny lied along another path. [/B]

Good point, I agree.

Originally posted by barrelrider110
But what if Aragorn had sent Gimli and Legolas after M & P as Beleg Strongbow suggests? What do you think would have happened? [/B]

I don't think they would have separated. Somehow that strikes me as not very likely. Could be just me though.

If Aragorn would have joined Frodo and Sam, I doubt Gollum would even come close to him or the hobbits. He wasn't that fond of Aragorn and that's an understatement. Things would have been very different for sure.

[Elfmaster XK]

And this then begs the question of would the ring be destroyed if gollum wasn't there? Frodo could have run off with it!!

(poor gollum! i like gollum)

[Harad]

Its not easy...but everyone has to leave out things that happened AFTER the choice at Parth Galen. If you want to trust to "intuition in the face of reason" I can not argue. Its only reason that I can argue.

I think a reasonable choice would be to send G&L after M&P. And I agree with B110 that waiting to give Boromir a burial with full military honors hardly is sensible in a situation where time is of the essence with regards to LIVING comrades. It just literary folderol.

As far as Frodo not trusting Boromir before Parth Galen what about:

`I shall go to Minas Tirith, alone if need be, for it is my duty,' said Boromir; and after that he was silent for a while, sitting with his eyes fixed on Frodo, as if he was trying to read the Halfling's thoughts. At length he spoke again, softly, as if he was debating with himself. `If you wish only to destroy the Ring,' he said, `then there is little use in war and weapons; and the Men of Minas Tirith cannot help. But if you wish to destroy the armed might of the Dark Lord, then it is folly to go without force into his domain; and folly to throw away.' He paused suddenly, as if he had become aware that he was speaking his thoughts aloud. `It would be folly to throw lives away, I mean,' he ended. `It is a choice between defending a strong place and walking openly into the arms of death. At least, that is how I see it.'
Frodo caught something new and strange in Boromir's glance, and he looked hard at him. Plainly Boromir's thought was different from his final words. It would be folly to throw away: what? The Ring of Power? He had said something like this at the Council, but then he had accepted the correction of Elrond. Frodo looked at Aragorn, but he seemed deep in his own thought and made no sign that he had heeded Boromir's words. And so their debate ended.

Its very clear that Frodo looked to Aragorn for help against Boromir.

Frodo decided to protect his friends including Sam by going alone. Sam violated that decision wisely by following Frodo. Aragorn could have and should have done the same. Sam was a nice companion for Frodo, but hardly in the realm of the Chief Ranger of ME. Also remember that Aragorn had captured Gollum in the Dead Marshes years before and had entered Mordor. He was a FAR FAR FAR superior guide and protector than Sam. Would they have had Gollum in their party? Would they have had Gollum at the Crack of Doom? Speculation that can not enter in Aragorn's decision at Parth Galen.

[Menelvagor]

Originally posted by Eärniel


I don't think they would have separated. Somehow that strikes me as not very likely. Could be just me though.

If Aragorn would have joined Frodo and Sam, I doubt Gollum would even come close to him or the hobbits. He wasn't that fond of Aragorn and that's an understatement. Things would have been very different for sure.

I think Gollum would've still followed them at a distance, and probably Aragorn's presence at the Sammath Naur would not have been a strong enough deterant for him to let the ring be destroyed.

[Harad]

We should disallow things that happened AFTER the decision at Parth Galen either for or against. These things could not have been anticipated by Aragorn without a ouija board or without his thumbing thru his personal copy of LOTR.

Aragorn knew that Gollum was following the Fellowship all the way from Moria. He also knew that Gollum was following them on the River. He could also guess that Gollum would follow/catch up to F&S on the East bank. So not only did he abandon them to themselves, he abandoned them to Gollum's tender mercies. If Gollum could "strangle 'gorn" (which I dont believe), how much more so could he take care of F&S?

[Menelvagor]

I know, I was responding to a post made earlier that asked what would have happened it had happened this way.