The Beatles

[azalea]

It was funny to me when I saw that scene from Let It Be when Paul and George are "fighting," because I thought, "Wow, if they consider that fighting after having been as close as they were for so many years, then they're doing pretty well there, actually!" In my family that would have been considered "a discussion"!

[Huan]

Alright, I've only just found this thread finally, so I want to address as many of the I-can't-resist questions I saw as possible. First: the impossibility of naming an absolute favorite Beatles song. I actually can do this, but everyone, including Beatles fans, always looks askance when I do: it's "Day Tripper." I've always called it a Persian rug of perfection, as a rock n' roll song. Not lyrically profound, no, but as a Beatles number, man, everyone's just in top form here. I just found out recently that most of the mind-numbingly good tambourine work I'd attributed to Ringo on all their songs in this period, not just "Day Tripper," was done actually by John. DAMN! John, by the way, is "my favorite Beatle," in quotes because I've never understood the question. It's his band: he started it and he ended it, and for me his voice is just from another plane or something. After "Day Tripper," though, I'd have trouble making even a top twenty, though I do know most of them would be John's. From Paul, though, "Hey Jude" (Paul's masterpiece John said, and I agree) and "Helter Skelter" would make the list.
There was the subject of which bios people had read, I suppose in a credential-establishing way. Here's mine: Lennon Remembers (if you haven't read it READ IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE), All We Are Saying (John and Yoko's Playboy interview), Hunter Davies' authorized tame bio written before they even broke up, Ray Coleman's Lennon, the book and videos of Anthology, McCartney: Many Years From Now, The Beatles: An Oral History, The Lost Beatles Interviews, A Hard Day's Write, Peter Brown's bio (he called to say we could make it okay, you can get married in Gibraltar near Spain), and The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions.
Preferred movie came up: technically speaking, AHDN is the better film, and I certainly love it (the new DVD in widescreen! Patti Boyd was in a shot where I'd never seen her before! It's a whole new movie!), but for some reason Help! has contributed a lot more catchphrases among my friends. "A fiendish thingie," "Kailili!", "It's cold. It's a cold place.", "famous" used indiscriminately ("Why so it famous is!), "Well, you're very polite aren't you?" etc.
Cassiopeia, you mentioned inserting "crap" in phrases of The Long and Winding Road. That's a good idea! I've always just hit the Next button.
Azalea, George and Paul's "fight" in Let it Be WOULD have been small potatoes in earlier years. That's just it: they were at the "were already broken up but don't realize it" stage. As Ringo said, it was the wind-down to a divorce. At that point, little things become monumental.
And for anyone who dissed Ringo's drumming, hey, he's not a virtuouso like a jazz player, nor god-of-thunder like John Bonham or Dave Grohl, but speaking as a drummer myself, as John Lennon said of himself as a guitarist, "If you put me with someone like B.B. King, I'd be embarassed, but I can make a rock move." Same with Ringo.

[Huan]

Oh, and for anyone who is "pro-Yoko," read Lennon in America, by Geoffrey Giuliani, which I forgot to mention among the bios I'd read. It's based on his diaries, and you'll come away with some very mixed feelings. The problem is it all sounds too credibly John to dismiss offhand.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Huan
Oh, and for anyone who is "pro-Yoko," read Lennon in America, by Geoffrey Giuliani, which I forgot to mention among the bios I'd read. It's based on his diaries, and you'll come away with some very mixed feelings. The problem is it all sounds too credibly John to dismiss offhand.

I think you mean Geoffrey Guiliano (Giuliani was mayor of NYC). From my experience, he seems to have little respect among Beatles fans - like Fred Seaman.

I havn't seen AHDN DVD yet - but I will when I find it! Regarding Ringo's drumming, I get annoyed when people say he's not a good drummer. I remember this guy kept going on and on about how Ringo couldn't do a drum roll, just because Ringo said he couldn't, but Ringo was joking at the time.

First: the impossibility of naming an absolute favorite Beatles song. I actually can do this, but everyone, including Beatles fans, always looks askance when I do: it's "Day Tripper."

You are lucky to do that! I love Day Tripper, it would probably be in my top 10 Beatles songs. A Day in the Life seems to top most peoples list, but it has never been one of my favorites. I have to mention one of my favorite Beatles site: http://www.pootle.demon.co.uk/wgo.htm I'm not being picky, I think it's fun to listen to them in the songs.

[BeardofPants]

It's funny: I'd never consider Day Tripper for my Top 10. Good song, but really, when it's competing with "While my guitar gently weeps" "In my life" "Yesterday" "Strawberry fields" "Julia" "A day in the life" "Lucy in the sky with diamonds" "Something" "Here comes the sun" "Hey Jude" "Revolution" "Norwegian Wood" ... well, you get the idea....

[Huan]

D'OH! I did mean Giuliano. I think he doesn't have a lot of clout with certain Beatles fans because of the subject matter he's putting out there. But he only publishes material based on actual diaries and interviews. It ain't pretty, but I think it's probably true. And none of it diminishes the music.
Of course Ringo could do a drum roll. Drum rolls are the easist thing in the world. Anyone heard Live at the BBC? Check out "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry." Actually check out "I Wanna Be Your Man." Tell me that guy can't drum. Or the drum break in "Hello Goodbye!" Oh screw it, look, Ringo is just a good drummer. And as a matter of fact, I jumped the gun with that John Bonham thing. Ringo's drumming in "Helter Skelter" is worth five billion John Bonhams.
As I said, I know I stand alone in my abject reverence of "Day Tripper." John, the primary writer, himself considered it a throwaway, primarily a drug song. For him, the "she" in the song is some person who claims to be into drugs but only does it whenever convenient, not a real druggie, just a day "tripper." I think in practice, Paul's lead in the verses and John's in the chorus goes way beyond that. And that rhythm! And the riff! Check out the lead-in to the last verse, when the main rhythm comes back in, the tambourine misses a beat, and it is EXACTLY the beat it NEEDED to miss. The song is basically eighteenth-note centered, and at the last lead-in, the tambourine throws in a quarter note. And it just jams! Goes right back into eighteenth-notes, but that one missed beat gives it new-found FORCE. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Comic Book Guy]

Ringo's drumming in "Helter Skelter" is worth five billion John Bonhams.

Yeah, five billion, sure.

[Coney]

Ringo is just a good drummer. And as a matter of fact, I jumped the gun with that John Bonham thing. Ringo's drumming in "Helter Skelter" is worth five billion John Bonhams.

5 billion Bonhams with their arms tied behind their back and a drumstick inserted in their left nostril

Although I can't deny that Ringo has had his moments I don't really think you can draw a comparison........Ringo was an excellent "technical" drummer (beats carefully measured etc) while Bonham was.............well he was just the Beast really, he had a more instinctive style to his playing

[Lizra]

Ringo is a great drummer! I thought Comic Book Guy was serious!? The Bonham statement is off, (just an joking exaggeration, I'm sure?!) JB was a great drummer too. Doh! I love Ringo's rock steady solid rhythm. Smooth as silk, yet strong, with lots of cymbals. LOVE IT!

I'm glad you like Day Tripper Huan, but I vividly remember when that song came out, I was disappointed! (The flip side of that 45 was "We Can Work It Out", another disappointment). For me, Day tripper was a bit of a departure from their previous rockin, more rythmic (almost rockabilly) hits. I like the earlier "bar/ Beatle stomp" sound myself. Oh well, to each his own!

[Huan]

Coney, Bonham may be the Beast, but Ringo is also a quite instinctive player and is in fact not particularly "technically" proficient. His rhythms are generally solid, but he can rush and drag like the most garagey garage drummer. Check out how much the tempo suddenly drags in "You Won't See Me." This is one of the reasons he gets a bad rep, but I love it about him. Paul is actually a better technical drummer (Dear Prudence, Back in the USSR, The Ballad of John and Yoko). Ultimately, though, I was kind of just trying to make a point with the Bonham comparison. I just meant that "Helter Skelter" has some very intense drumming. He got blisters on his fingers, after all.

[BeardofPants]

Huan: Could you fill me in on what exactly Bonham said? A link if poss?

[Huan]

Huh?

[Lizra]

I'm telling you, you gotta hear that demo of "Love Me Do" that Pete Best plays on! (or have you?)

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Huan
Huh?

With regards to Ringo's drumming style.

[cassiopeia]

Has anyone been brave enough to listen to John and Yoko's albums like Two Virgins and The Wedding Album? I could borrow them from my local library but I'm still too scared to........

[Huan]

Alas, I have not been brave enough to listen to The Wedding Album or Two Virgins. I'm not brave enough to look at the COVER of Two Virgins.

[Huan]

BoP, there wasn't a comment BY Bonham about Ringo, I made a comment ABOUT Bonham in relation to Ringo. Which no one agrees with me about .

[BeardofPants]

Oh... *Silly Blonde* Excuse me, while I got get some spirulina...

I've got (well... the BF, but I stole it) a Lennon box set, which has quite a few of his works on there. Don't know if any are from the Two Virgins/Wedding album though. Will check, and let you know. (I'll have to pull apart the bookcase again! )

[Huan]

BoP, if it's THE Lennon boxed set, there's nothing from Two Virgins or The Wedding Album on there, because there are no songs on those albums. They're basically just long random tape loop experiments, like an album-length version of Revolution 9 with less attention to any sense of coherence.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Huan
Alas, I have not been brave enough to listen to The Wedding Album or Two Virgins. I'm not brave enough to look at the COVER of Two Virgins.

I totally freaked out when I first saw that Two Virgins cover. There I was, happily watching the Anthology video when suddenly up comes a picture of John Lennon naked. Keep in mind this was the beginning of my obsession with the Beatles, so I didn't know about this. I wish he decided to do that circa 1965...mmmm.......