Gore and IPCC win Nobel Prize

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

BJ, you aren't going to reduce the population by pedocide (infanticide, toddlercide, kidocide, or adolescocide) are you? Suicide? Decreasing your carbon footprint by some combination of the two? Walk to work? Sell your SUV? Ride a bus? Is it just those other folks that need to reduce their population so we can maintain the inequality that is America consuming 50% of world resources for 5% of the population?

I'm not doing anything, except having a bunch of kids myself. And, like most people, I probably won't do much unless and until everyone else is forced to as well.

It's how humans work. Would you even pay any of your taxes if the choice was left up to you? I know I wouldn't.

I'm just restating the fact that we are doomed to all kinds of undesirable changes in the future, due to population growth, that dwarf carbon emissions.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Um, what does Stalinism have to do with liberalism? Of course, that's the type of question a believer in conservativeNazofascism might ask.

You beat me to it.

I didnt realize voting for a democrat was the equivalent of supporting a communist dictator in a totalitarian state. I suppose that means anyone who votes for a republican must have swastika arm bands in the closet?

[The Gaffer]

I tell ya, the latter is nearer the truth than the former in these enlightened days.

[inked]

RECORD temperature DECLINE last year........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../24/do2402.xml


Will they take away/take back Al's Nobel prize for inaccuracy, false reporting, and producing too much carbon whilst traipsing about with his muddled ideas?

You be the judge!

[Earniel]

Just because you want climate change to be as simplistic as: more CO2 = hotter everywhere, doens't mean it'll [be] just that. Local cold-records are not impossible in the curent global warming mechanism, Inked. Try again next time.

A lot of factors come to play into climate change, and it is not just CO2 or just the sun-spot cycle that triggers things. This article is IMO just geared at sensation, not proper science reporting, but then again, it's an opinion piece, not even a proper news article.

(In fact, IMO, there couldn't be a better example that the climate's off tilt than the abnormal and extreme snow-fall in China.)

[The Gaffer]

That story should be subtitled "Know-nothing journo deploys herd mentality to nourish Jeremy Clarkson reactionary brigade."

[inked]

Hey, this seems "proof" of the theory of global cooling espoused as the "hottest" (pseudo)science of the 1960's, rather than "proof". I just thought that snow on the beach in Greece and loss of crops in China due to dnow might have something to do that Al forgot. Oh well,... . On the ohter hand, temperature decline and snow in Greece and China seems to be a Global effect and not merely limited to a freak snow in Greece. Unless the whole planet is freak-y.

[Jonathan]

While there's snow in Greece I can say that technically a big part of Scandinavia didn't have any winter this year. According to Swedish and Finnish meteorological definition, winter is the time of the year when the mean temperature remain steady at 0 ºC or below.

Well, that didn't happen this year. And since the spring criteria haven't all been met yet, it's still autumn over here

Funny. A few years ago when there was snow chaos in Medditerranean Europe, we had a quite warm winter up north in Scandinavia too. Bizarre.

[Insidious Rex]

So we get some snow in January and inked is ready to use that as proof that global warming is a myth? Of course the January to January temp drop was significant. Know why? Not because its been an extra frigid January THIS year but because LAST January was the hottest on record… a full 0.23 degrees Celsius warmer than the previous record. So its hard to do worse than the worst number tricks and misrepresentations aside…



Why in the world would you champion what essentially amounts to a single month’s temperature and ignore the fact that 8 of the past 10 years have been THE HOTTEST ON RECORD? How can you explain that away with snow in Greece exactly? And what was all that about more ice cover then ever? Is he looking at Earth or Mars? Or is he ignoring certain parts of the world entirely… The fact is summer sea-ice in the Arctic Ocean shrank dramatically last year (a whopping 23%!). For the first time in recorded human history the Northwest Passage opened up to ships which you may recall caused a scramble for territory claims in the “new global warming” era of artic land speculation…

Anything for political gamesmenship I guess… Or corporate elegance…

[inked]

Oh, IR, you know you can't trust government data because it is all slewed by a vast conspiracy to misreport the facts!

[Earniel]

Because we all know it really went more like this, isn't it, Inked?

[tolkienfan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Because we all know it really went more like this, isn't it, Inked?

lol! That is ridiculously funny!

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I look forward to the day when Al Gore is remembered solely for claiming to have invented the internet.

The quote about "inventing the internet" is taken very much out of context by Gore's detractors.

Originally Posted by inked

The result...The judges not only awarded old Butch the No Bell Piece Prize but they also awarded him the Pulletsurprise as well.

Hilarious!! That's even more awesome than this pun.

Originally Posted by inked

IR, you might want to consider the liberal solution to inadequate food reserves in the enlightened communist state of Stalin before you get too certain about what liberals will or will not do.

BJ, you aren't going to reduce the population by pedocide (infanticide, toddlercide, kidocide, or adolescocide) are you? Suicide? Decreasing your carbon footprint by some combination of the two? Walk to work? Sell your SUV? Ride a bus? Is it just those other folks that need to reduce their population so we can maintain the inequality that is America consuming 50% of world resources for 5% of the population?

[Bolding mine.] Inked, I took the liberty of highlighting the part of your post that would not only be useful, but also socially acceptable.

A little clarification so we're all on the same page:

Sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect in text, I'm reading, "Is it just those other folks that need to reduce their population so we can maintain the inequality that is America consuming 50% of world resources for 5% of the population?" as commentary on how wealthy nations consume way too many resources.

But... Stalin? A liberal? And HOW?

Originally Posted by inked

RECORD temperature DECLINE last year........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../24/do2402.xml


Will they take away/take back Al's Nobel prize for inaccuracy, false reporting, and producing too much carbon whilst traipsing about with his muddled ideas?

You be the judge!

While I think Gore's message would have been more impactful had he taken the train, the whole global cooling thing is actually a myth.

[inked]

Nurv,

The Ghandi pun was awesome!!! Thanks!

You bolded all the right words!!!

The global cooling myth and the global warming myth are both myths in the sense of fantasy constructs designed to convey some aspect of actuality but in extremis.

Some days on the 'Moot are just so good because someone GETS it!

Stalin was very liberal with death by starvation as a way of solving the resources and too many people thingy. Best estimate, forced relocation and statist cooperatives resulted in the deaths of about 10 million folks (range, IMSC, 5-20 million). The LIBERAL application of socialist principles solved the food shortage.

[Nurvingiel]

I do like to say climate change instead of global warming because the term encompasses more than a long-term warming trend. Still, global warming is not a myth. The graph IRex posted earlier demonstrates the long-term warming trend in global temperatures.

No pal, as much as I wish it were true, global warming is no more a myth than Stalin was a socialist. (Communist dictatorship != socialist policies.)

[inked]

Nurv, you know better than most that climate change is the name of the game (remember that bit about grasslands to forests et vice versa). Global warming is not the same as climate change. Global warming is one form of climate change. The allegation that global warming is man-made is just that. Some chappie measuring the changes after the Maunder Minimum would have a case for global warming, and, you know, he's be right. The chappie with the data before the Maunder Minimum would have a good claim to global cooling.

It's not the changes that are the point of the hysteria a la Al G. It's the hype.

So, do you prefer Pr-, intra-, or emerging Maunder Minima for the current reality as opposed to the hype?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by inked

Nurv, you know better than most that climate change is the name of the game (remember that bit about grasslands to forests et vice versa). Global warming is not the same as climate change. Global warming is one form of climate change. The allegation that global warming is man-made is just that. Some chappie measuring the changes after the Maunder Minimum would have a case for global warming, and, you know, he's be right. The chappie with the data before the Maunder Minimum would have a good claim to global cooling.

No, I'd say global warming is more an effect that leads to climate change.

Also, the fellow with the data before the Maunder Minimum can only make predictions about what happens then. He'd need a lot more recent data to make predictions about what might happen now.

[inked]

And climate change with global warming and cooling is recorded in the ice cores.

Climate change goes either way. Global warming has happened before and will happen again. The question is whether this is normative change within the climate related to a multitude of factors or whether the hype is accurate and causative OUTSIDE the normal variations.

That is contestible. And is worthy of contest. Especially if politicos want to use the fear factor to elevate their powers. This remains the true "Inconvenient Truth" - with or without a Nobel Prize.

Science, not hype.

[hectorberlioz]

So Al Gore, Al Sharpton, and Pat Robertson are walking on a beach...and team up to fight Global Warming!

[Jonathan]

Inked, that you are highly sceptical of any human involvement in climate change is more than obvious. But to make things clearer; are you doubtful as to whether the past 50 years have indeed been a period of global warming?

Originally Posted by inked

Climate change goes either way. Global warming has happened before and will happen again. The question is whether this is normative change within the climate related to a multitude of factors or whether the hype is accurate and causative OUTSIDE the normal variations

Agreed. And if we can't trust the media to give us a true answer to that question, why not go to straight to the source?

I skimmed through the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC and this is what I've found:

• The report makes it clear that the global average temperature has increased since the pre-industrial times and especially during the last 50 years. I quote: "Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice and rising global average sea level."
• The report also provides evidence that most of the rise in temperature is very likely due to anthropogenic greenhouse gases. There are two temperature models in the report - one that uses only natural factors (including solar irradiance) and another that uses both natural and human factors. The former model cannot explain the observed temperature anomalies. The latter model can. Quote: "Warming across the globe... is very unlikely to be solely due to natural variability of temperatures..."

So in short, the IPCC convincingly states that we are in fact living in a period of global warming and that natural factors alone can't explain the rise in temperature during the past 50 years at the least.

Science, not hype