would you rather have boromir live or die

[The Lady of Ithilien]

It's interesting...I haven't found a character yet that JRRT created just to kill off.

That said, if Boromir had lived, then the whole story would have been different. I love it as it turned out, so think he should have died, but his living raises some interesting possibilities (and lets me fool around with the "list" command again ):

1. Aragorn would have known the Orcs had seized Merry and Pippin, not Frodo and Sam. Which set of hobbits would he have gone after? An impossible situation for someone who once told all four hobbits "I am Aragorn son of Arathorn; and if by life or death I can save you, I will."
   
2. Merry and Pippin would have still made it to Fangorn, roused the Ents (unintentionally), and watched Isengard's destruction, but Gandalf and the Three Hunters would not have met, nor would have Aragorn and Éomer (as I don't think Aragorn would have gone after Merry and Pippin, as much as he would have wanted to). So would there have been a battle of Helm's Deep and destruction of Saruman's army, or would Saruman still have had his army to come back and clear off the Ents?
   
3. Boromir would go back to Minas Tirith (though if he came in contact with any of the hobbits again, the issue of his confrontation with Frodo would have flared). I think Denethor would still have gone crazy, as that came from his intense struggles with Sauron in the Palantir. Perhaps his insanity would have set his sons at each other's throats, and led to a wider split in Gondor at the very hour of its greatest crisis. In any event, would Rohan have been able to come to its aid (assuming that Gandalf would have gone to Meduseld anyway and healed Théoden), if Saruman were still a player? And so Gondor may have fallen, or if it still stood, things likely wouldn't have developed to the point where the Army of the West could march north to the Black Gate, thus giving Frodo and Sam the chance to creep down to Mount Doom, and hence, the quest would have failed.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by gimli7410
thats was from a long time ago we already discussed that bout legolas

Sorry, I was so tired of seeing that over and over that when I was scrolling through the history I couldn't help but make a comment. My humblest appologies for my outburst. Please forgive me.

[gimli7410]

its ok

[Elf Girl]

I think I'm happy with it the way it is, I don't like to question the master. If Borimir had lived still corrupted by the Ring it could have been very dangerous for Frodo, so I guess he's better dead.

[Bombadillo]

Oh I hate Borimir; he should have died much sooner. From his first appearance in the book at the Council of Elrond he was already wierd, and he wouldn't listen to what anybody had to say about the ring. Then throughout the book, he didn't try to prevent his giving in to the ring and all that. I mean people say that the ring was bending his will during the entire book, but for all I can tell he had no willpower from the very beginning.

[Linaewen]

Good points, Lady of Ithilien. (Didn't read thru them all, but they look good)

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Oh I hate Borimir; he should have died much sooner. From his first appearance in the book at the Council of Elrond he was already wierd, and he wouldn't listen to what anybody had to say about the ring. Then throughout the book, he didn't try to prevent his giving in to the ring and all that. I mean people say that the ring was bending his will during the entire book, but for all I can tell he had no willpower from the very beginning.

He's not that bad! But yes, I think it is far better that he died, for the reason Elf Girl stated and also because I think it makes it more interesting for one of the Fellowship to die. Maybe 2 would have been good?? (Nah)

He did have some willpower, just not as much as my beloved Faramir...

[Aralyn]

In a way it doesn't really matter to me cause he died an' that's the end, you know? If he had lived he would have kinda ruined the story.
But then he was the MOST human of all the characters. I mean wh's to say we wouldn't have wanted the ring ourselves?

[Ragnarok]

I think Boromir's death seemed alright in a sense that it was realistic. He died defending the company and in a way it draws the reader in. If Boromir lived I think the whole feeling would be lost and the readers wouldn't be touched. Most importantly the whole story would have changed for good or bad. I also think Boromir died at an appropriate time because its the final breaking of the "Fellowship." From that point on they are seperated from each other.

[Bombadillo]

Yeah realism. I think that the real reason Tolkien put Borimir in LotR was for realism. He definately wasn't in for the storyline anyway, because generally he didn't effect it.

[Orion]

Yes, but Boromir did effect to the storyline - he caused the breaking of the fellowship.

I think his death was just fine - as much as I like Boromir, I´m glad that he died in a noble and honourable way, instead of living on and very likely causing problems in the future; for example Aragorn in Gondor..

[crickhollow]

good point, orion, Faramir did say that the only reason that boromir never challenged aragorn's authority, was probably that they were never rivals in battle, or something to that effect.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Orion
Yes, but Boromir did effect to the storyline - he caused the breaking of the fellowship.

I think his death was just fine - as much as I like Boromir, I´m glad that he died in a noble and honourable way, instead of living on and very likely causing problems in the future; for example Aragorn in Gondor..

Yes, he redeemed himself by dying defending his comrads. If he had lived, it is possible that his behavior would have become worse, darkening his character in the reader's eyes. As it is, you end the first book with a sense of who Boromir really is: noble and courageous.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Yes, he redeemed himself by dying defending his comrads. If he had lived, it is possible that his behavior would have become worse, darkening his character in the reader's eyes. As it is, you end the first book with a sense of who Boromir really is: noble and courageous.

I agree, to an extent. But I also think that Boromir is arrogant (and relatively annoying). I apologise beforehand if this offends anyone. Don't excommunicate me!

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
I agree, to an extent. But I also think that Boromir is arrogant (and relatively annoying). I apologise beforehand if this offends anyone. Don't excommunicate me!

Never fear the excommunication from a church that would be easily offended by the truth. The truth shall set you free!
Give me some examples of arrogance in Boromir.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Orion
Yes, but Boromir did effect to the storyline - he caused the breaking of the fellowship.

I think his death was just fine - as much as I like Boromir, I´m glad that he died in a noble and honourable way, instead of living on and very likely causing problems in the future; for example Aragorn in Gondor..

No he didn't. Frodo would have made the same decision to go to Mordor alone even if Borimir lived. He just ran faster to the boats after he died.

Originally posted by Ruinel
Give me some examples of arrogance in Boromir.

This isn't directed at me but here are the obvious ones:
-After being repeatedly warned about the Ring, he still wanted to use it to 'save' Gondor.
-It was a desperate plan to destroy the Ring, but Borimir was too arrogant to have hope for it at all.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
This isn't directed at me but here are the obvious ones:
-After being repeatedly warned about the Ring, he still wanted to use it to 'save' Gondor.
-It was a desperate plan to destroy the Ring, but Borimir was too arrogant to have hope for it at all.

I'm trying to connect these examples to 'arrogance' but I'm having trouble. Arrogant means hautiness, conceited, unwaranted pride, insolent. Are you saying that although he was warned about The Ring he continued to request it because he didn't want to admit that he was wrong about it?

[Bombadillo]

In the former yes, he is too proud to admit that his initial thoughts of the Ring are wrong.
In the latter, he was too overly proud to sink so low to such a desperate plan.

I don't have a way with words.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I don't have a way with words.

Oh, that's fine. I was just trying to see your point of view.

[Orion]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
No he didn't. Frodo would have made the same decision to go to Mordor alone even if Borimir lived. He just ran faster to the boats after he died.

That is true, but we don´t know would Frodo had been able to leave alone then, and it´s very likely that at least Merry and Pippin wouldn´t had been captured by orcs, because they wouldn´t had left to look for Frodo, because Boromir wouldn´t had caused the sudden suspicion and panic amongst the fellowship.
*wonders did that make any sense..*

[Linaewen]

Bombadillo- that's right. Good points.
Ruinel- I will think of more but I need time to come up with them, and I need to go now. Will come back with lots of answers.