Good Orcs? - Page 3

Wayfarer · 01-22-2005, 11:18 PM

Well, they would probably have a different pool of genetic markers - for example, humans have one range of skin colors, while orcs seem to be all within a range that's as dark as or darker than the darkest human. Elves, also, seem to have a few genetic markers that fall outside the human norm - such as having unusual hair and eye colors.

The spirit then adapts the body, and the genes, for the particular fate of that race, so there probably isn't any genetic difference that, for example, makes elves immortal and lets half-elves live longer than normal humans.

Embladyne · 01-23-2005, 03:06 AM

Yep, Wayfarer, that was what I was thinking.

YayGollum · 10-10-2007, 02:28 PM

Hm. I bumped into this thread randomly and found it difficult to let the matter rest. Poor Orcses. I don't remember reading anyplace that they lacked free will. Also, I don't remember reading about any character thought up by Tolkien that was pure good or pure evil, so any sentient seems to have the ability to make clear decisions.

GrayMouser · 04-02-2011, 05:05 AM

Got this as a counter-argument from someone saying that orcs indeed had free will and some of them chose good:

Quote:

All living things were divided in that day [Battle of Dagorlad], and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves, few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron

Saying that this means that at least some orcs chose to fight on the side of Gil-galad and Elrond- bizarre as that sounds. Thoughts?

***Varnafindë*** · 04-02-2011, 05:44 AM

I somehow doubt that Tolkien meant it that way, and guess that it was an oversight on his part - I would need to study Letters more closely to be sure.

As the text stands, that bizarre concept seems indeed to be the logical interpretation.

01-22-2005, 11:18 PM	#41
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Well, they would probably have a different pool of genetic markers - for example, humans have one range of skin colors, while orcs seem to be all within a range that's as dark as or darker than the darkest human. Elves, also, seem to have a few genetic markers that fall outside the human norm - such as having unusual hair and eye colors. The spirit then adapts the body, and the genes, for the particular fate of that race, so there probably isn't any genetic difference that, for example, makes elves immortal and lets half-elves live longer than normal humans. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-23-2005, 03:06 AM	#42
Embladyne Honourary Elitist Inklette Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: between the mountains and the sea Posts: 704	Yep, Wayfarer, that was what I was thinking. __________________ Even on the pinnacle of a palace a crow does not become an eagle. My DA page

10-10-2007, 02:28 PM	#43
YayGollum Enting Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A place called Fort Myers. In the evil state of Florida, a part of the United States Of America, of North America, Earth, Sol system. Posts: 73	Hm. I bumped into this thread randomly and found it difficult to let the matter rest. Poor Orcses. I don't remember reading anyplace that they lacked free will. Also, I don't remember reading about any character thought up by Tolkien that was pure good or pure evil, so any sentient seems to have the ability to make clear decisions. __________________ "You're either an Outcast, or you're in denial." "Strength and stupidity in numbers." - Myself

04-02-2011, 05:44 AM	#45
*Varnafindë* Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Imladris (and sometimes Norway) Posts: 3,304	I somehow doubt that Tolkien meant it that way, and guess that it was an oversight on his part - I would need to study Letters more closely to be sure. As the text stands, that bizarre concept seems indeed to be the logical interpretation. __________________ Signature picture art - Bard the Bowman - by vigshane Avatar art - Footsteps of Spring (a young Luthien) - by Henning Janssen

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