What do you think of the Dwarves?

[Eärloth]

Originally posted by Durin1
I can't really see what having a flat or round world has to do with Dwarves, but i'll contribute anyway...

Hey yeah. We got sidetracked. World flat/round not important, at least not in this thread. Talk bout Dwarves.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"Well from what Gimli says it just seems they dont have much to do. They have pretty much hollowed out everymountain and found ever tresure!"
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If "The Atlas of Middle-Earth, by Karen Wynn Fonstad, is accurate, there is a large-scale map of middle-earth on p. 38-39 showing a large mountain range, the Orocarni (Mts. of the East). After Sauron was vanquished couldn't dwarves have migrated there, and also the Grey Mountains south of Umbar?

[Blackheart]

" Obviously Tolkien would have had a heart attack if his noble, valiant race of Dwarves were portrayed in such a negative way."

/Chuckle

Thorin and Co. were never porteayed in a negative way were they?

And yes, there were evil dwarves, even dwarves that made alliances with the orcs...

But yes, there's plenty about the Naugrim, it's just never put into a history about the dwarves. They always show up in relation to the toher races, primarily because Tolkein took the stance of translating a book written by a hobbit translating a book written by elves.

And as for the Sil, well, they are elvish tales. And the elves themselves admit that they are mostly concerned with themselves. And as someone rightly pointed out, the dwarves are very secretive.

But there's enough info in there for someone to fabricate a dwarven history without embellishing over much. No more than pointing out likely occurances, such as the destruction of Beleriand and the subsequent destruction near Ered Luin and the cities of Gabilgathol (Belegost) and Nogrod being a possible factor in dwarf populations spreading north and west into M.E. at the end of the Second age.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Lizra
Why was the future so dim for the dwarves, in the fourth age? (or was it? ) Why weren't they adapting, prospering and reproducing well? It would seem dwarves had plenty of "mannish" qualities to allow them to adapt and prosper, unlike elves? I've always wondered why dwarves get written out, like some kind of puny race, yet they are always described as hardy individuals.

For the same reason as Hobbits and Elves were 'written out': It was Men who were destined to take over the earth.

Though we do not hear much about the Dwarves, they did play a significant role in the First Age. It was the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost who first provided king Thingol with armour and weapons of metal, and the Sindar learned their smithcraft from the Naugrim. If this had not been so, I guess Morgoth would have been victorious in the First Battle.

[Durin1]

Obviously Tolkien was concerned primarily with the world of Elves (in which Men appear but only as peripherals), but my personal feelings (and I know that not every fan is appeased from certain aspects of the mythology) are that Dwarves could have been of more importance.

We are told that they also had "sub-creational" abilities (the dragon-helm, for example), which Men did not. Also, in the essay "Of Dwarves and Men", The Peoples of ME, Tolkien states that they were the most redoubtable warriors of all speaking peoples.

They could have been a factor in all the conflicts had they not been so insular.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Blackheart
"But yes, there's plenty about the Naugrim, it's just never put into a history about the dwarves. They always show up in relation to the to the other races"
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Indeed, there's one curious bit when talking about the dwarves helping Thingol make Menegroth because of Melian's counsel:

He took thought therefore how he should make for himself a kingly dwelling, and a place that should be strong, if evil were to wake again in Middle-earth; and he sought aid and counsel of the Dwarves of Belegost. They gave it willingly, for they were unwearied in those days and eager for new works; and though the dwarves ever demanded a price for all they did, whether with delight or with toil, at this time they held themselves paid. For Melian taught them much that they were eager to learn"

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A curious statement about Melian, since she was "a Maia who served both Vana and Este". since Vana was especially concerned with flowers and birds, not particularly dwarvish concerns. What did Melian instruct the dwarves in?

[Blackheart]

"What did Melian instruct the dwarves in?"

Interior decoration...

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
What did Melian instruct the dwarves in?

Perhaps she gave them news of Aule. Or advised them to beware of the wiles of Melkor.