British/American Adversity to Learning Languages

[Ragnarok]

I'm in High School right now and in the U.S. most High Schools require a certain amount of credits of a secondary language to graduate. The most common languages available are Spanish, French, Latin, German and Italian.

[Aralyn]

One thing I want to say is this. Why can't you take Sign language as a second language? Some people can only speak it so you should be able to take it right? My 'school' only offers Spanish. A forced language course
What language are you taking Ragnarok?
Some people should take English cause they can't speak it right in the first place.
(like me in some cases)

[Coney]

Originally posted by Aralyn
One thing I want to say is this. Why can't you take Sign language as a second language?

I totally agree with ya Aralyn........Sign should be taught in all schools (I had to teach meself to Sign when I was in me twenties, and not just the rude signs).

[Aralyn]

I'm sure the rude ones just came naturally huh?


You're right though. I am self taught Signer but I can only handspell. And that takes awhile

[Ragnarok]

Aralyn

I have two years of Spanish under my belt and I'm taking Latin right now.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Aralyn
I'm sure the rude ones just came naturally huh?


You're right though. I am self taught Signer but I can only handspell. And that takes awhile

Yeah, some of the rude ones I already knew

When ya progress wi' the Sign.............yer'll learn that the users can insult far more effectively than us verbal types ....(in my neck-of-the-woods that's how they "test" ya, if ya can curse in Sign.......they know ya in the know )

[markedel]

I'm from Canada (Toronto) and I know very little French-I only took it up to Grade 10, and the University I go to has no foreign language requirement. I do, however, speak Hebrew, thanks to the private school I went to-so I could go to Israel, read the signs, and have the natives speak English with me.

[Wayfarer]

*sigh*

I /still/ speak only english fluently, but it's not for lack of trying.

At various times I've studied mandarin, spanish, german, latin, hebrew, sindarin, quenya, and esperanto. I've dabbled in gaelic and a few others. Never picked any of them up...

Then again, my english grammer is a good sight better than most americans, maybe it has to do with the way my brain is organized...

[jerseydevil]

As has been stated in the thread and I've stated before - it's not that Americans don't want to learn foreign languages - it's that there is no place to practice them. Of course 15 year olds on the European continent speak multiple languages. If I traveled the same distance in Europe as I do from NJ to Indiana - I would be going through several countries all speaking their own language (and until recently their currency). You can't compare Americans ability or desire to speak a foreign language to Europeans. For Europeans it's basically a requirement in order to just get around.

I took two years Spanish in high school and 2 years French in college. On the side I have attempted to learn Latin, Russian, Italian, Spanish and French. I have no one to tell me what's wrong or right - or anyway of practicing.

I've stated this before I've lived in 6 states, New Jersey, California, Indiana, Illinois, Oregon, West Virginia. That is equivalent of living from the Ural Mountains of Russia to London England. I've been to 40 states. I would like to know how many Europeans have that kind of experience.

I'm also curious how many Britons actually go to the continent? Do a lot of people take advantage of the ferry and the Chunnel? I can see where Britons would have less of a need to learn a foreign language too - since they are cut off from the European Continent and isn't exactly the same as a Italian deciding to just take a day trip to Germany or Hungary.

[Coney]

I'm also curious how many Britons actually go to the continent?

I think most Brits (taking me as an untypical example) go at least twice a year........(prolly like an American takes a coupla holidays in a distant state).

But as a sign of lazyness (and to Europeans credit) we don't bother learning the lingo because those in foreign shores speak English so well

it's not that Americans don't want to learn foreign languages - it's that there is no place to practice them.

This is very true, as I mentioned Sign earlier, applying the same principle, yer can't learn to effectively communicate in an alien language unless yer have the opportunity to practice it :/

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
I think most Brits (taking me as an untypical example) go at least twice a year........(prolly like an American takes a coupla holidays in a distant state).

Yeah - I imagine you guys go to the French Riviera or some equivalent shore resort - like we go to Florida or Gulf Shore Alabama.

But as a sign of lazyness (and to Europeans credit) we don't bother learning the lingo because those in foreign shores speak English so well

True - and some people can be really nasty if you don't know their language very well. I try to look at it as - it's a second language for them - it's better than what I'm able to do. In the past people used to give Radagast the Brown a hard time if he was unable to make himself clear or if he didn't word somethign properly. Be he was only 13 - his English is really good for being a second language.

This is very true, as I mentioned Sign earlier, applying the same principle, yer can't learn to effectively communicate in an alien language unless yer have the opportunity to practice it :/

Yeah - I should have included sign as one of the ones I've attempted to learn as well. I know some words and I still know the alphabet. There was a girl in my 7th-8th grade class who knew sign language. Her mother was a teacher for the deaf - so she knew it really well. When she started teaching people sign language in class the teachers got mad. People were signing back and forth and basically talking in class and the teachers didn't like that too much.

[Coney]

Yeah - I imagine you guys go to the French Riviera or some equivalent shore resort - like we go to Florida or Gulf Shore Alabama.

From my neck of the woods folks are more inclined to visit Greece, Malta or Spain.......my Mum does visit France at least once a year tho'

True - and some people can be really nasty if you don't know their language very well. I try to look at it as - it's a second language for them - it's better than what I'm able to do. In the past people used to give Radagast the Brown a hard time if he was unable to make himself clear or if he didn't word somethign properly. Be he was only 13 - his English is really good for being a second language.

*pats Radaghast on the back* couldn't agree more, and without trying to flatter Rad, 'tis amazing to see how so many 'mooter who don't have English as their first (or even second) language learn the intricascies of this bastardised lingo
To be honest, I've never met anyone who has become frustrated at the lack of communication.........then again, I've only ever visited as a tourist :/

People were signing back and forth and basically talking in class and the teachers didn't like that too much.

You had teachers that didn't Sign??

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Aralyn
What all do you speak Ruinel?

Fluently? Only english. I speak only a little french, but I can watch a french movie without subtitles and understand almost all of it. I can curse you out in spanish and hold a limited conversation with you once you are truely annoyed with the fact that I just rudely cursed you out. lol! I taught myself a little german but I've lost almost all of it for lack of practice. I also learned basic sign language so that I could feed my friend answers during a test *regrets cheating now, though, friend should have studied harder*.

I want to learn latin, but I don't have the time and I've got no one to practice with.

Originally posted by Wayfarer
maybe it has to do with the way my brain is organized...

o.0 *wants to say something...really bad.*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
The British don't need to learn any foriegn languages.........if we are misunderstood in our native tongue



WE REPEAT IT VERY LOUDLY AND VERY SLOWLY BECAUSE WE ARE CONVINCED THAT YOU WILL UNDERSTAND US!

Usually works as well, a translator is found just to get rid of the annoying tourist

I've heard a number of Americans do that too.... It seems they think that every other language is just a slowed-down version of English.

[Huan]

I have always been totally annoyed by most Americans' (and English too I guess) antipathy toward learning additional languages. First, this business of not "needing" to, since "everyone" speaks English these days. What is it with people who don't wish to acquire knowledge unless they "need" to? And of course, though it may not be strictly necessary, it will in fact endear you to the natives if you speak even a noun-only caveman version of their language, because in my experience people of other countries are pleasantly astounded when an English-speaker has actually bothered to learn a few words, since so few of us do it. Besides the issue of laziness and arrogance, there is also a strong misunderstanding in America (I can't speak for England) about learning language. Here there is an erroneous belief that requiring children below high-school age to learn a second language is some cruel unusual punishment, it's "too hard." Those who think this are thinking as adults. The human brain is hardwired at birth to learn language; it's a pure animal instinct in us. You can just pour a language into an infant's head. If there are two tongues spoken in the house, the kid will fluently know two tongues. Or three or ten. And though this instinct fades as we age, it is still much stronger in young children. At about puberty, the language instinct fades and learning a language becomes an intellectual excercise and thus much more difficult. Which is why kids in other countries who start learning English at age six speak it so well, while we Americans struggle with first-year French; our school system begins teaching languages at precisely the age when we've lost the instinct for learning them.

[Ragnarok]

Huan how many languages do you speak fluently?

[Ornelírë Mistë]

Jesus, I'd learn more languages than English if I could! My school requires 4 years of language, but only offers three: Latin, Spanish, and French. I take French and Latin, and will learn some Japanese at camp. I'm just so bothered by the fact that there is so little demand for more than 3 languages, so there are no more. I want to learn so many more, but how can I? I try to teach myself some stuff, but you can't do that too well, can you? I know some Quenya.

[Huan]

Ragnarok, I don't speak any languages but English fluently, I'm an American . However, I have studied Greek, French, Spanish, German, Old and Middle English (useless obviously), and a wee bit of Latin.

[jerseydevil]

Huan - that's rather arrogant of you to state that. Where is a 6 year old supposed to speak French or Italian in the US? True in New Jersey I can go to a pizzeria and pick up Italian. But where in Mississippi are you going to be able to perfect your language skills in a foreign language?

Also - it's not instinct that enables a child to easily learn languages - it's the fact that the connections that make the brain process and understand language haven't been hard wired yet. As a person ages - these connections get more set and it's hard to make new connections in the brain that "Je ne sais pas" can mean "I don't know". The hard part isn't even the new words. It's the pronounciation - the grammar rules, the nuances of the language. The rules such as using one version "to know" when "you know something" versus the "to know" which means "to know someone." that is the hard part and that is only reinforced through constant use.

If you start teaching a 6 year old to speak a foreign language and they have no place to use it - they will lose it. And that's just a plain fact.

Also - in New Jersey a lot of schools do teach foreign languages in elementary schools.

West Windsor-Plainsboro North High school
The population of West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North and South reflects the growing trend toward pluralism in American society. Students represent diverse racial and cultural groups. Our students speak 33 languages. This diversity affords students excellent opportunities for intercultural understanding and provides them with a global view of world issues.

So for you to say that AMERICANS are arrogant and don't wish to learn foreign language is plain wrong. Maybe that's the way it is in Mississippi - but I for one enjoy learning foreign languages. I've just never been able to retain it - because I have no one to speak it with on a daily basis.

These are the courses that are offered and their required text books that are offered in my school district....

World Languages

French One
French Two
French Three
French Four Honors
French Five Honors
Advance Placement French Language

Spanish One
Spanish Two
Spanish Three
Spanish Three Accelerated
Spanish Four
Spanish Four Accelerated
Spanish Five
AP Spanish

German One
German Two
German Three
German Four
German Five

Latin One
Latin Two
Latin Three
Latin Four

Chinese One
Chinese Two
Chinese Three
Chinese Four Honors

[Aralyn]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
If you start teaching a 6 year old to speak a foreign language and they have no place to use it - they will lose it. And that's just a plain fact.

My four year old sister speaks Spanish, not fluently but can talk with you. Sure my dad speaks it to her but young children retain these things. Practice makes you better but it doesn't mean they'll forget it.