atrocities - Page 2

jerseydevil · 03-28-2003, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baby-K
*sits back patiently waiting for JD to rediscover this thread*

I've discovered it.

gimli7410 · 03-28-2003, 11:50 AM

those are big numbers

Grey_Wolf · 03-28-2003, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Most of the atocities were committed by countries that ruled under a totalitarian government. It is rather ironic that the Soviet Union and China - countries that pledged to be for the people - had such a high incidence of death among their own citizens (outside of war).

And Happy New Years - A-E.

The graph is somewhat incorrect.

Soviet Union: 22 000 000 (sent to the Siberian death camps)
China: 100 000 000 (sent to manchurian "correction institutes)

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-28-2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
To which I would add: Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

But...but that's almost implying that War is not wholly perverse and vile. That can't be true! The AMERICANS are doing it, for crying out loud!

BeardofPants · 03-28-2003, 11:34 PM

Did I mention war as a solution to these atrocities?

Maybe if the American diplomat spent less time vetoing UN resolutions, and more time... No, can't say that, can I?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-28-2003, 11:38 PM

Well, what would you suggest, then? When (ask JD for numbers) years of diplomacy and I think 17 resolutions didn't work.

BeardofPants · 03-28-2003, 11:43 PM

See previous post on US-vetoes. And I don't really think your tone is that appropriate in a thread with such sensitive subject matter, do you?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-28-2003, 11:45 PM

You're completely right, my humblest apologies. I was tremendously out of line.

I editted it out.

jerseydevil · 03-29-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Did I mention war as a solution to these atrocities? Maybe if the American diplomat spent less time vetoing UN resolutions, and more time... No, can't say that, can I?

Oh yeah - America uses it's veto power right and left don't we.?

Let me ask again - is there anything right we do in your eyes? Not that I really care or anything - because, believe it or not - the US government isn't here to make you happy.

afro-elf · 03-29-2003, 04:42 AM

Quote:

but that's almost implying that War is not wholly perverse and vile

I don't think that ALL war is.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-29-2003, 06:13 AM

But the comment wasn't directed to you.

GrayMouser · 03-29-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grey_Wolf
The graph is somewhat incorrect.

Soviet Union: 22 000 000 (sent to the Siberian death camps)
China: 100 000 000 (sent to manchurian "correction institutes)

Wouldn't that be somewhat crowded in Manchuria?

Most of the deaths under Mao happened right at home; specifically the 30,000,000 who starved to death during the Great Leap Forward.

afro-elf · 03-30-2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

But the comment wasn't directed to you

My thread.

Seriously do you feel all war is wrong?

What about war to stop such atrocities?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 02:10 AM

Sorry, I thought you thought I was talking to you.

Oh, did you think I meant that? Sorry, that was a (rather rude) jibe at BoP's apparent belief that war can never do any good. (Wonder what would have happened if all the non-Aryan's had laid down their weapons and said, "Hey, Dolphy, let's just be pals, huh?" BLAM!)

No, I certainly do not think that all war is wrong, at all. War is not in and of itself a GOOD thing, certainly; but as long as Mankind is on this earth, there will be madmen, and there will Saddam Husseins, and tyrannical monsters with whom you cannot negotiate, and war will be, at times, a necessity. I just do not see how anyone can think that people like Saddam Hussein will respond to diplomacy.

Anyway, that's my two bits.

Grey_Wolf · 03-30-2003, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Wouldn't that be somewhat crowded in Manchuria?

Most of the deaths under Mao happened right at home; specifically the 30,000,000 who starved to death during the Great Leap Forward.

Sorry.I commented on the graph not on your post. I may have been a bit off on the numbers concerning China. But numbers shouldn't matter. It's the fact that they're still doing it that should make people organize great protest marches all of the free world.

jerseydevil · 03-30-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grey_Wolf
Sorry.I commented on the graph not on your post. I may have been a bit off on the numbers concerning China. But numbers shouldn't matter. It's the fact that they're still doing it that should make people organize great protest marches all of the free world.

Protest marches - against someone OTHER THAN America??? That'll be the day. People would rather let the atorcities continue - just as long as the US doesn't get involved. If its behind closed doors and people are being killed by their own governments - it really doesn't concern the "peace protestors" too much. If the US tries to put an end to various atrocities - then the "so-called" peace protestors rise up in outrage. Sort of ironic. It makes you sort of wonder what they really want this world to be like.

It's very clear that most of the anti-war protestors are just against US involvement - not really looking for true peace in the world. They just like the warm fuzzy feeling of the semblence of peace. I guess as long as they don't see military tanks and fighter jets - all is right with the world.

With that attitude I'm really glad Hitler started invading other countries. Today we'd still be allowing the mass slaughter of jews, gypsies, homosexuals and others within Germany all in the name of "peace".

Lief Erikson · 03-30-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
What about war to stop such atrocities?

I've told a few people before that I personally would be willing to fight in Iraq, even if the WMDs weren't an issue, just to help the Iraqi people.

That might be just me, though.

03-28-2003, 11:50 AM	#22
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	those are big numbers __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

03-28-2003, 11:34 PM	#25
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Did I mention war as a solution to these atrocities? Maybe if the American diplomat spent less time vetoing UN resolutions, and more time... No, can't say that, can I? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-28-2003, 11:38 PM	#26
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Well, what would you suggest, then? When (ask JD for numbers) years of diplomacy and I think 17 resolutions didn't work. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 03-28-2003 at 11:44 PM.

03-28-2003, 11:43 PM	#27
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	See previous post on US-vetoes. And I don't really think your tone is that appropriate in a thread with such sensitive subject matter, do you? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-28-2003, 11:45 PM	#28
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	You're completely right, my humblest apologies. I was tremendously out of line. I editted it out. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-29-2003, 06:13 AM	#31
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	But the comment wasn't directed to you. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 02:10 AM	#34
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Sorry, I thought you thought I was talking to you. Oh, did you think I meant that? Sorry, that was a (rather rude) jibe at BoP's apparent belief that war can never do any good. (Wonder what would have happened if all the non-Aryan's had laid down their weapons and said, "Hey, Dolphy, let's just be pals, huh?" BLAM!) No, I certainly do not think that all war is wrong, at all. War is not in and of itself a GOOD thing, certainly; but as long as Mankind is on this earth, there will be madmen, and there will Saddam Husseins, and tyrannical monsters with whom you cannot negotiate, and war will be, at times, a necessity. I just do not see how anyone can think that people like Saddam Hussein will respond to diplomacy. Anyway, that's my two bits. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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