Lurtz

[Sween]

Lurtz does work on many a level even if you consider the book. You defintally need a leader. otherwise the orcs would just look silly as they would apaear to have no leadership. It also give someone worthwhile to kill bormir and in turn someone for aragorn to kill (also allows him to save bormoir temporally so they get there touching parting moment)

also at the start of two towers the orcs to have a lot of argueements in many ways this does suggest that they have lost there leader. of all the changes i think it fits in seemlesly.

has this thread decended onto a debate on BoP turns on again?

[scott100]

Ugluk and Grishnak come next if I remember rightly.

"Nothing for Mordor, nothing for poor Grishnak, Gollum..."

[Faramir Took]

Originally posted by crickhollow
which brings me to another question--

the orcs in the movie are much more animal-like than they are in the book. The ones in Moria warble and chatter in high pitched voices like jungle cannibles in a bad 1930s era movie.

Lurtz can only rasp out two lines: "Saruman!", and "Find the halflings!"

On the official website, when men, elves, hobbits and dwarves are all listed as "Peoples of Middle-Earth", orcs, and the uruk-hai are listed seperately under the category, "Creatures." (I assume Wargs will soon be added to that second list)

How will PJ account for the desire for power that the orcs who capture Frodo, and ones who try to steal it from Merry and Pipping (their names escape me at the moment) display, as well as the dialogue between the hobbits and the orcs?
PJ's orcs seem to me to be entirely incapable of intelligent speech.

fyi crickhollow - the orcs in the book were Ugluk and grishnakh

[Dunadan]

How can anyone complain about how they rendered the orcs? OK, their gait was a bit like a old man who's been at the cooking sherry, and they suffer from the same tactical deficiency as all Minions of Evil ("Now, make sure you attack the hero..er..enemy one-by-one. While you're waiting in line to be mashed, be sure to wave your weapon and grunt a lot.").

However, the attention to detail was fantastic, particularly the different sub-species; much more detail than in the book! Can't wait to see the Uruk-hai "chapter" in the next film.

Lurtz was great; I think we all have days when we feel like that. But the bit where Aragorn diced him up was tremendous. Gaun yersel big man! (You can tell I'm a boy, can't you?)

[Miranda]

Aragorn mullering Lurtz was the one of the highlights of the whole damn film!!!! It was especially rewarding for all us girlies because old orc breath got his just deserts for beating up our dear little Boromir- sorry I'm surrounded by some Sean Bean fans and I'm under pain of death if I don't mention how much we love him!!! I thought it was fantastic when he was aiming the bow right in Boromir's face (before Aragorn comes in with all guns blazing). It really showed what heartless killers the forces of evil are and how they have no value for any form of life while the Fellowship are all fighting for eachother! Can't wait to see Grishnash (don't know how to spell) etc in the next film- although I'll probably have nightmares- I checked out a couple of the TTT books and nearly fainted. LOL. Mx

[Wayfarer]

Grishnákh

[cassiopeia]

Lurtz didn't bother me in the film, there were worse changes/additions than him. The part where he licks the blood of the knife sends shivers down my back. I thought the orcs were good - except in Moria where they climbed up the walls.

BoP and Lurtz sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G

[BeardofPants]

Damned straight.

[Amandil]

In fact, I so ignored super-leader-orc boy that until I read this thread I forgot entirely that Lurtz was spectacularily killed at the end of the movie. Somehow I don't recall the name "Lurtz" being mentioned either. Maybe they needed a name for the action figure...

Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Amandil
Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.

In a word, yes.

Not yours, of course, but the general movie-going public's.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Amandil
In fact, I so ignored super-leader-orc boy that until I read this thread I forgot entirely that Lurtz was spectacularily killed at the end of the movie. Somehow I don't recall the name "Lurtz" being mentioned either. Maybe they needed a name for the action figure...

Are our minds so weak that we can't watch a film without a personified (or perhaps incarnated) antagonist? Somehow I think the mere spiritual presence of Sauron and hordes of orcs (good example from the movie: the orcs swarming like beetles in Moria) was way more chilling in the books, than Sauron in plate armour and Lurtz with his stupid-ass "scimitar" in the movies.

how have you allready got a custome signature?

[Amandil]

Doh! -- someone noticed!

I've been a mooter for a year, not just an active one. Like life itself, my custom signature is a gift.

[Lollypopgurl]

I like Lurtz.

The licking the knife thing was gross but cool.

[Amandil]

Nice quotation, Lolypopgurl. You realize Lurtz is an occasion of tampering with what Tolkien did, eh?

[Millane]

sorry havent been keeping up with the thread im on holidays in Hong Kong... im at the airport at the moment and i still found some time to moot...

anyways back to lurtz... i reckoned he was a great imput... apart from looking the uruk hai type he got the best punch in the movie... right in aragorns head... hehehehe

anyways better head off.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Amandil
Doh! -- someone noticed!

I've been a mooter for a year, not just an active one. Like life itself, my custom signature is a gift.

I had noticed - I also noticed how many (or should I say few) posts you have and how long you have been here. I figured it might have been Hobbit's doing.

Lurtz was stupid. First I find it funny that orcs - as described by Tolkien - would kill each other given the chance; yet when Lurtz is "born" and he kills the one orc - Saruman holds the other two back from saving him and they have that stupid look on their face of actually caring. If Jackson had followed the mannerisms of the orcs as described by Tolkien - then the orcs would have been cheering at seeing Lurtz kill him. Another example of Jackson getting the characterisation wrong.

Also - there were leaders of the orcs that came from Isengard - as has been stated. Where is Grishnákh and Ugluk? They weren't good enough for Jackson? There was no build up so far that there are Mordor orcs and Isengard orcs - another shortcoming to the movie.

And Lurtz was never mentioned by name in the movie - he was purely an invention to sell an action figure.

Jackson dumbed down the movie.

[Amandil]

I had noticed - I also noticed how many (or should I say few) posts you have and how long you have been here. I figured it might have been Hobbit's doing.

No, not Hobbit. I didn't even notice that I had a custom signature until somebody else pointed it out. Sort of a fitting signature, in a way (I should say, from a particular point of view), eh?

Can't agree more with you, jersey devil, on Lurtz. Notice how all the people who "like" Lurtz tend to have, um, how shall I say it, not very considered opinions?

[Lizra]

Oh, I considered my opinion , whatever that means!

I was looking at the new action figures at Toy-r-Us, They had Merry and Pippen paired with Ugluk and Grishnakh, I can't remember who was with who. The two orcs looked VERRRY hideous! Different from Lurtzy boy, and different from each other. I'm sure they will be plenty icky!

[Cirdan]

Lizra, do you remember the 80's song by Julie Brown: "I like 'em Big and Stupid""

Lurtz is the one commander sent to "find the halflings", and since Ugluk and Grishnakh are now subordinated we must hope the chain of command is strong in Orcs (not likely).

They should have shown a Dunland woman being taken for breeding by Saruman's Orcs. That is how I read Tolkien's origin of the Uruk-hai as told by Treebeard.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Lizra, do you remember the 80's song by Julie Brown: "I like 'em Big and Stupid""

Lurtz is the one commander sent to "find the halflings", and since Ugluk and Grishnakh are now subordinated we must hope the chain of command is strong in Orcs (not likely).

They should have shown a Dunland woman being taken for breeding by Saruman's Orcs. That is how I read Tolkien's origin of the Uruk-hai as told by Treebeard.

Yeah - but the "love scenes" are reserved for Aragorn and Arwen. Also - having the Uruk-hai come about as it's portrayed in the book wouldn't have the gross out factor that Jackson's version does. Remember - it's an action movie.