I Kissed Dating Goodbye, by Joshua Harris

[Aralyn]

Sorry Gwaimar. Okay let me say it this way.

Most guys I know are immature and a lot of guys who are older than me act immature. (But then girls can be too. Excuse me for offending you )

[Rían]

** warning - motherly lecture coming up **

Originally posted by Aralyn
Elvellyn most guys are immature period

Come now, ladies, let's don't be judgemental here . Yes, girls are more mature in some areas than guys, but guys are more mature in other areas than girls are! (for example, girls can usually be a lot meaner in their conversation than guys are, IMO) (and I'm speaking about in general, not specifically to you, Aralyn - please don't be offended ). Come now, ladies, don't you think girls can be cattier than guys? God made men and women to be very different, for some very good reasons, so it makes sense that they mature at different speeds in different areas. Each sex needs to be careful to not judge the other by how they themselves are maturing, but to instead carefully examine themselves, personally and make sure they are growing in their relationship with the Lord (I'm talking to Christians here, obviously ). And I am one female who is absolutely DELIGHTED that God decided to make BOTH men and women!

And just one more note to the Christian girls here - please just take one more look at the mirror before you leave the house and ask yourself if what you are wearing will make it reallly hard for a guy to keep his thoughts pure. I am BY NO MEANS asking you to wear burlap sacks!!!! I think God made women really beautiful, and it's good to enjoy that beauty, but Christian girls should also consider other people in the way that they dress, and it would probably be kind to the guys that are trying hard to be pure to just wear things a little less tight and a little less short/revealing. Sex is a fabulous gift, but only in the context of a committed marriage, as God designed it, for the good of everyone involved, and it's easier for both sides to keep pure if they watch what they wear.

I loved this book a lot. My mom gave it to me so I had to pretend not to like it but It was good. I had already decided when I was thirteen not to date cause of all the things that happened to friends. This book just put my feelings into writing.

I hope you're just kinda kidding about pretending to not like it . Being a mom is really a very hard job, and I would encourage you to be truthful with your mom, so she could do as good a job as possible. Most moms (and I imagine yours, because she gave you this book) really DO do things out of a great love and concern for their kids. It IS quite a job, though, and I'm sure she would appreciate any help you can give her.

And just in general - I think the most important thing is to decide ahead of time what your particular boundaries will be - and then STICK TO THEM! If you are in a place where you're tempted to pass those boundaries - DON'T! Have some exit lines thought up ahead of time and USE them! And please make one of your boundaries be to NOT decide anything about boundaries in a passionate moment! God gave me the grace to wait until marriage, and I can say I'm SO glad I did!!!!! And I encourage you guys to wait, also.

** end motherly lecture **

[Aralyn]

as I stated, I know some girls are immature. And I was kidding.

[Rían]

Yes, I did see that you said some girls are immature, and I'm glad you can see that. We all have plenty of growing to do, don't we?

I just wanted to point out that you can't judge a guy's maturity on a girl's standard, IMO, because I think that that is a common mistake that many people make, and that guys and girls mature in different ways.

[Coney]

It seems that I have discovered the "virginity thread"

I read it, and I decide not to date. Never have, never will. I just don't see the point in all the heartache it appears to bring, and I don't need the extra temptation to 'go too far' either.

Wallrocker, what's that all about?...if you can make the decision not to date then you certainly have the self control not to "go too far" as well.

Is this a cultural/age thing I'm getting confused with here? In the UK a date is going out and doing something with a girl/boy who you enjoy spending time with.....when I was a lad, many moons ago, someone who wanted a shag within' a couple of dates was just loose.......she/he got the cold shoulder straight away.

But dating was fun! I loved it! Wish I was young enough to go through it all again.......

Yeesh, I spent my virginity when I was 13 (yes virginity is just like a coin, you don't have to lose it, you can decide when and where you spend it, make sure ya get ya money's worth ) I've known 18 women and had serious relationships with four of them.......and, heck, it's been a blast!

Does that make me impure?.......probably in some eyes.

Does that make me irresponsible?.....nope, I've never ended a relationship under a bad cloud, never had a disease and have no illegitimate children.

Do I regret my teenage years?.....definitely not! I had hundreds of dates, some mad, some bad, some were incredible fun!

Folks, the choice is your's (obviously) date, or not. But IMO your all missing out on some great occasions/opportunities.......and IMO very formative ones at that!

[Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood]

Whoa RÃ*an is serious!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Coney
It seems that I have discovered the "virginity thread"

What, is there something wrong, IYO, with people that want to only enjoy sex with your husband/wife and think that that's the best way to go? It's a fabulous thing to have your virginity on your wedding night, and to know that you've saved that aspect of yourself entirely for your spouse! It's a real expression of love for your spouse, IMO. I know that you disagree with this opinion, Coney, but I'm sad to see you put down those that think differently.

[Coney]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
What, is there something wrong, IYO, with people that want to only enjoy sex with your husband/wife and think that that's the best way to go? It's a fabulous thing to have your virginity on your wedding night, and to know that you've saved that aspect of yourself entirely for your spouse! It's a real expression of love for your spouse, IMO. I know that you disagree with this opinion, Coney, but I'm sad to see you put down those that think differently.

Eh? I can't recall there being any mention in my post about when someone should spend their virginity, that is a personal choice.

But I do think there is something wrong with someone not dating at all. (ok is this a misunderstanding on my part, because when I was dating a date was a social event between two people, not a promise of sex).

I gave examples from my personal life because I wanted to illustrate that just because some people wish to wait until they are married (which is fair enough) does not necessarily mean that people who do not wish to wait makes them wrong, as long as they go about it in a responsible manner.

[Rían]

I was reacting to the first line, which was 'It seems that I have discovered the "virginity thread" ' with the rolling-eye smilie. That seemed to me like you were 'looking down' on those that choose to save their virginity for their wedding night. But in your last paragraph, you say waiting until your wedding night is 'fair enough', so I guess I misunderstood you. Sorry!

by Coney
I gave examples from my personal life because I wanted to illustrate that just because some people wish to wait until they are married (which is fair enough) does not necessarily mean that people who do not wish to wait makes them wrong, as long as they go about it in a responsible manner.

I think this is a book for Christians, and it is indeed wrong for Christians to have sex before marriage. This is God's loving plan for His children, and it is for their best, as God is the one who designed our bodies! This standard does not apply to non-Christians (but if they choose to follow it, they will be blessed, too, because it is right).

by Coney
Does that make me irresponsible?.....nope, I've never ended a relationship under a bad cloud, never had a disease and have no illegitimate children.

I think the whole 'responsible' thing rather misses the point. Frankly, I think it's sheer luck that you don't have any diseases (although I'm very glad you don't!) - how do you know who your partners have had sex with, and if their partners have deceived them as far as not having a disease, and if their partner's partners have deceived them, and so on? The percentages are on your side, because you haven't had sex with a huge amount of people, but really, you're very fortunate, IMO. Also, as far as children- really, a guy can't put a definite stop to that chance (unless he goes in for a certain surgery, which I doubt you have done ). Contraceptives are NOT 100% effective, and if a girl really wants a child, there's ways that she could increase those chances. From my brief knowledge of you, I would think that you wouldn't go out with girls that would be deceptive like that, but really, you never know - we've all made mistaken character judgements before.

I'm glad that you do everything you can to be responsible, though, and you know I like you , but this is just an area where a Christian and a non-Christian will disagree, because Christians go by what the Bible says, and non-Christians don't (which certainly makes sense for them - why should they go by the Bible if they don't believe it to be God's word?)

[Rían]

Originally posted by Lady_of_the_Golden_Wood
Whoa RÃ*an is serious!

Yes, I hate for people to not hear both sides of the argument, and I must say that usually virginity until marriage is NOT promoted very often, at least on tv and in the movies! One of my "favorite" silly reasons to not be a virgin on your wedding night (I've actually heard people say this - has anyone else?) - "don't you want to know what you're doing on your wedding night?" Sheesh - like (1)it's hard to figure out, or (2) it's not fun to find out together?!? Oy!

I also don't like male-bashing (I'm not saying you were doing this, Aralyn, but your comment reminded me of the subject), which is currently rather popular in society, since I am very fond of many males (and Coney is one of them, whether he likes it or not! ), and I'm married to one of the best of the whole species! I think a world with just males or just females would be really awful (but that's just MHO - anyone else agree?)

[Baby-K]

As I was reading through this thread, something struck me as very odd - most of the posts were made by young girls in their early teens, who have now sworn off dating 'cos of what they had read in some book. Also, it seems that they are all confusing dating with sex - not the same thing at all!

I have been on a lot of dates since I was about 15, this does not mean that I slept with the first bugger to cross my doorstep (as a matter of fact I only bid my virginity fairwell on 13 August 1997 - 4 days before my 19th birthday and between my first date & that night there were a lot of dates with a lot of different guys). Dating has always been a lot of fun - you get to go out with someone who is in the very least a friend and share a wonderful experience. Besides, you get to dress up (or down) and have someone else pay for your movie ticket (unless you decide to split the cost)

BTW - if you don't date, how on earth are you ever going to meet Mr / Miss Right?

[Coney]

I think a world with just males or just females would be really awful (but that's just MHO - anyone else agree?)

*shudders at the thought of a world with only men*

If it wasn't for the ladies of this world most of us men would either-

Be in prison.

Be alcoholics.

Have all the social graces of your average redneck

And we'd look like Grizzly Adams on a "bad hair" day!

(Not to mention that there would be so much testosterone flying about that we'd murder each other anyway).

Love may make the world go aroung but sex is definitly the *ahem* lubrication.

It's just a shame that so many of the young 'uns in this thread associate dating and sex so closely

[Baby-K]

Love may make the world go aroung but sex is definitly the *ahem* lubrication.

hehehe And that's all I'm gonna say about that less I get off track again & start filling this thread with nonsense.

BTW you were quite right about sff

[Rían]

Yeah, I don't think I agree with the 'no dating' idea, just the idea that you should make your boundaries ahead of time and stick to them, despite what you may think in less intellectual moments! I should probably read the book to see how they define 'dating'. My first reaction is that they've probably gone a bit overboard, but for some people, that might be what they need.

I dated quite a few guys before I got married, and if any guy tried to go farther than I wanted him to, I just asked him nicely not to (but in a way that he knew I meant it - don't confuse the poor guy by making it hard for him to decide if you really mean it or not ) - it was that simple. This is just a matter of respect - your respect for yourself, and his for you, IMO. (BTW - this also means that you need to use common sense, and not go out into the middle of nowhere on a first date with someone you don't know well, where if you say 'no' to him you don't really have much choice if he decides to not respect your 'no'). The guys that I needed to say 'no' to I ended up not going out with for long, anyway.

Personally, I think dating is a good way to spend time with someone and have fun together and learn more about relationships and see if that person is right for you. I dated one guy for a year that I thought at first I would marry, but as we got closer, I saw things that I knew would drive me crazy and would be awful to have in a marriage partner (although he was a very nice guy, he simply could not make decisions on his own convictions). I have good memories of my dating days, and I think they helped me make a good decision about who I married. I did take dating seriously, though, as far as consideration for each other (not allowing my limits to be passed, and when we did break up, doing it with all possible kindness and consideration and respect for the other person).

Perhaps the main emphasis on the book is to be careful of the physical aspect; is it? Being close physically can blind you to other aspects of a person's character, because physical attraction and pleasure is so strong. The guy I thought I was going to marry and I went fairly quickly into a close physical relationship, and I think this probably closed my eyes to his inability to make decisions and some other things about his character that were incompatible with mine, and we ended up dating longer than I think we would have otherwise, and it was the most difficult break-up I had.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Coney
.....And we'd look like Grizzly Adams on a "bad hair" day!

Hey, what color is your hair now?

(Not to mention that there would be so much testosterone flying about that we'd murder each other anyway).

True! I think if it were all guys, they would watch a few hundred football/soccer/rugby/whatever games first, then be so upset at the referees and players that there would be a giant mass murder! And if it were only women on the planet, we would all cat-fight each other to death!

It's just a shame that so many of the young 'uns in this thread associate dating and sex so closely

The media usually presents the two as having to go together, unfortunately, although they don't have to (and shouldn't, IMHO )

[Coney]

Hey, what color is your hair now?

*This is really embarrasing*

At the moment my hair is it's normal dark brown/black.....and it's about a half inch long

The last peroxide kinda "killed" my hair, it started snapping.....so it was out with the razor, shaved the lot off and let it grow natural for a while.

The media usually presents the two as having to go together, unfortunately, although they don't have to (and shouldn't, IMHO )

This is true, through the media it now seems that dating and sex go hand in hand.........yeesh teenagers are in so much of a rush to grow up these days.

Ach well, all part of the great learning curve that is life I suppose

[Rían]

Originally posted by Coney
The last peroxide kinda "killed" my hair, it started snapping.....

*imagines Coney's hair snapping*

Hair #24,125 - "No! No! I just can't take it anymore! Aaahhh!"
Hair #1,055 - "Aaack! Neither can I - it's just too much pressure! He can't expect me to deal with all this peroxide anymore!"
Hair #658 - "Oh no, it's ....... the RAZOR!!! Aiiiieeee......"

*ok so that was dumb....*

[Baby-K]

The last peroxide kinda "killed" my hair, it started snapping.....so it was out with the razor, shaved the lot off and let it grow natural for a while.

RIP Coney's hair

After having my hair all natural for a while, I finally decided to colour it again, so now it's a really beatiful red. Wonder how I would look with blonde hair..............

Back to topic:

This is just a matter of respect - your respect for yourself, and his for you, IMO. (BTW - this also means that you need to use common sense, and not go out into the middle of nowhere on a first date with someone you don't know well, where if you say 'no' to him you don't really have much choice if he decides to not respect your 'no').

You always have choices IMO - if the guy decides not to respect your decision it's rape, plain & simple. And it's up to you to make sure that he is brought to justice when something like that happens. Do not allow yourself to become a victim to more than just the act. But prevention is better than cure, so I agree with RÃ*an, be sensible when going out with someone you don't know for the first time.

Also when friends set you up on a blind date, try suggesting that you all go in a group, or meet him in a public place.

Ach - I make it sound like hard work to have fun. Just remember that you can go on as many dates as you like with different people and have fun.

[Amandil]

Ahhh, dating. If only I could have. I was just too stupid. I dated them all in my head, cuz I didn't know how to really ask them out on a date with words. They were always really friendly, though, funny thing. Anyway. Ugh, that was torture, but it was good. I'd just hate to have to do it again. Once I realized that girls might actually like me and not be insane, I dated only two of them before I married one of them (the last one). And I saw that it was very good. I'm not going to tell my kids not to date when the time comes. I hope I can help them to date well, if such a thing still be possible. My sister read that book, was duly impressed, and then eventually dated a bunch of guys. I guess she became duly unimpressed with it (the book). Nothing horrible about her going and dating either. She met some guys, really great ones, some of them wanted to marry her and she found she didn't want to marry them, thanks to dating them. So she didn't and she's still single, and keeping her eyes open. Sounds fine to me.

...deep thoughts, eh? Ha ha ha ha!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Amandil
.....I dated only two of them before I married one of them (the last one).

Funny, I married the last guy I dated .... hmmm, must be something about that last one.....

I hope I can help them to date well, if such a thing still be possible.

That's a good way to put it, Amandil - I like that. Dating for enjoyment of the other person, for fun times, for time spent with another person in a closer setting where you can see if he/she might be Mr/Miss Right, etc., and always treating the other person with respect and consideration.



And I agree, Baby-K - the 'ol "but she was dressing really sexy and so she was asking for it" excuse is a bunch of bull!! Rape is rape, and should be prosecuted. My point (which you got, but I'll reiterate) is to use common sense to do everything you can to avoid getting into a dangerous situation. And also, I think it IS considerate to guys to dress more modestly in public (as well as more respectful of yourself), but that's just MHO