It CAN'T Be Done? Or Can It? - Page 2

Agburanar · 04-16-2002, 04:58 AM

I agree that it's impossible to make a good film that will satisfy most people. The descriptions in the book leave enough to imagination to make many people's views of characters different.

Also he was probably speaking with the current technology in mind- it has advanved, but not really enough for this film. I think PJ was just being adventurous, let's hope in another 10 years or so someone else has a better go, but I'll save that for the movie forum!

Finrod Felagund · 04-17-2002, 10:48 AM

The Silmarillion isn't really a narrative story as much as a history. There is little actual character development except for Beren, Luthien and Turin.
There are also a lot of characters.
Difficult. Yes, extremely
Impossible, I think not!

Pippin Skywalker · 09-20-2002, 08:56 PM

Up to the sky you go my thread!

Sparky · 09-20-2002, 10:12 PM

I think it is possible to do a movie of the Sil, but if they did the entire Sil it would have to be a series of movies. Or as someone else said, they could just do individual stories. Beren and Luthien is a love story and an adventure, so surely it would attract a large group of people. The story of the children of Hurin would also make a good movie, but it would be a tragedy. If it was done well, I imagine it could get a few oscar nominations

Lefty Scaevola · 09-22-2002, 01:01 PM

I concur that most of the the stories in S would have to be filmed as seperate movies. The best cadidate for the first one would be Beren & Luthian.

Agburanar · 09-23-2002, 10:39 AM

Hmm. More cheesy elvish with subtitles. Nobody hurry to make it OK?

Pippin Skywalker · 10-25-2002, 02:59 AM

Here's my thoughts on the matter...or more of them anyway!

You know how Star Wars is the name of the franchise but the actual films have different titles? Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back,
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones. What could be done (MAYBE) is the Silmarillion could be Silmarillion: Beren and Luthien (perhaps finding a more stylish way to do it than that...but like the above.
The stories would be different ( i.e. their not all about Feanor or Turin) but their is a recognizable thread and "Feel" throughout. Of course a lot of dialogue will have to be written and perhaps as Peter Jackson did with LOTR roles will have to be extended various parts shortened and a number of other things. Naturally the FX, Scenery, Cinematography and so forth will have to be MUCH greater that LOTR since the Silmarilllion is set in a stranger even more fantastical time.

DraztiK · 10-31-2002, 03:08 PM

Or perhaps it would be better to make a TV-series out of it.

Or maybe not, cos if they do I probably wouldn't get to see it, livin in Belgium and all.

Lollypopgurl · 11-06-2002, 09:53 PM

Man, I would really like to see The Silmarillion if it was filmed. It's soooo cool!!!!! On my list of favorites LOTR and the Silmarillion are equal.

I just love it soooooooo much!!!!!!! I'm not the world's best reader (English is a second language to me). But whenever I go back and re-read paragraphs, chapters, or the whole thing; I find new stuff that I hadn't noticed before. There's just so much stuff in that book. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**crickhollow** · 11-06-2002, 10:43 PM

I agree with the consensus. Each story in the books could very easily make a movie itself. Dialogue would have to be crafted out of virtually nothing, but it could be done. The biggest problem that I can see is that the individual stories are so loosely linked together that it would be hard for mainstream audiences to follow the connections.

Bard · 11-07-2002, 09:37 AM

Owkee, this is how it might be done:
First film: The bannishment of the Noldor up to the sack of Beleriand at the battle of the Bragollach. Main roles: Keanu Reeves (Feanor), Kevin Kostner (Fingolfin), Ian Mac.Gregor (Finrod) Uma Thurman (Melian) and I haven`t figured out who`s best in the role of Thingol or Turgon yet.
Second film: The destruction of beleriand up to the ending of the battle of unnumbered tears (including the lay of Leithian). Main roles: Hador Lorindol, Huor and Hurin, Beren, Luthien (Nathalie Portman) and the ones named up above.
Third film: Túrin Turambar to Earendil and the fall of Morgoth. Main roles: Joseph Fiennes (Turin), Nienor, Finduilas, Beleg, Gwindor, Brandir, Mim, Tuor, Maedhros, Idril and Earendil.
Maybe you guys could think about a good fillin of the roles? I think it could work out fine this way.

Pippin Skywalker · 11-09-2002, 06:26 AM

I think Jaoquin Pheonix might be an intersting Maglen (sp)? (eol's son).

Kevin Costner in here? I dunno....lol

A lot of times lesser known or even UNKOWNS actors are much better... Cate Blanchette is a better Galadriel than say Goldie Hawn or something like that...Anthony Hopkins could have done Saruman but he doesn't fit THAT role. Chris Lee is better. I think you can find some real Brilliant on fire actors if you look in the right places. Theater companies are good places to look. Though I am aware it helps to have at least few famous thespians to draw crowds.

I LOVE hearing your different casting thoughts...please feel free to share them!

Bard · 11-09-2002, 10:40 AM

Yeah Pippin, I`ve also thought about this Phoenix-guy, he made a great impression in Gladiator. I`ve also considered him for the role of Feanor, but I think he might be a better Maeglin. Owh another good actor in the role of Hurin (old Hurin) could be Sean Connery (another good one could have been Richard Harris alias Marcus Aurelius, but that ain`t possible anymore). Who else have we got than? Owh yeah, Silvester Stalone, Wesley Snipes, Arnold Schwarzenegger, J. Claude van Damme, Bruce Willis etc. can all be an Ork or Troll or something. Owh, lest I forget, the big negro-man in the Green Mile would make a great Troll to!
That`s it for now than.
Owh, and if I could play a role in the Sil. myself I`d like to play either Beleg Cuthalion or Finrod Felagund.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-09-2002, 12:21 PM

Um, sorry folks, but just like Finrod, there is no actor in existance that could do justice to the role of his character.

Lollypopgurl · 12-18-2002, 07:16 PM

Natalie Portman as Luthien? I can imagine that.

CaranIstar · 01-11-2003, 01:09 AM

Keanu Reeves as Feanor? That's really scary...

Who was that bloke who played the Red Dragon.... I think he'd make a good Feanor.

Yeah, I'd agree with Joaquin Pheonix being a good Maeglin.

One wonders, what would the fair forms of Melkor and Sauron look like? Who'd play them before they became stuck in foul form?

Alquagarwaen · 01-12-2003, 07:13 AM

You should know Peregrin Tuk, that the director has changed many important concepts of the book, invented (like when the Nazgul saw Frodo in Osgiliath) lot of scenes, changed the characters´ way of thinking (like the attitudes of Faramir)and act, and distructed lot of VERY importatant things in both movies. Also did not included fundamental things (example: the succeding of Saruman and the nomination of Mithrandir as the new leader of the White Council).
As I see it, "The return of the king" is unfilmable in only one movie, becouse his duration is too long for only one movie.
But our "brilliant" and "excelent" director resumed this book in 3 hours of movie(becouse it was filmed the 3 movies at once, and the third one takes that time as long).
The director of art is a real shining mind, but the direction of the movie as story is a big piece of ****.

Agburanar · 01-13-2003, 09:27 AM

Well said. I hate directors who put their spin onto books instead of directing what's written.

markedel · 01-13-2003, 04:03 PM

The real question is whether a movie can convey the grandeur of the silmarillion. The story can be told, but its not just the plot that makes it great.

Noahamir · 01-15-2003, 04:59 PM

As others have pointed out, the best way to tackle the Simarillion would be to make a movie of one of the stories within the bigger book. Many have pointed to the story Of Beren and Luthien which I think would be the best also.

The way I imagine this movie would be to have a 15 to 20 minute Prologue much like in "Fellowship of the Ring" explaining the back history before diving into the main movie story.

The Prologue would have short scenes and voice narration showing Feanor crafting the Three Simarills, Melkor being released from the Halls of Mandos and then killing Feanor's father while stealing the three Jewels. Show Scenes of Melkor escaping to Middle Earth and placing them in an Iron Crown and Feanor's Oath to recapture the Jewels. Then show Feanor leading the Noldor out of Valinor back to Middle Earth and dying before the gates of Angband by the hands of the Balrog, Gothmag. End the Prologue by saying the Elves settled down in the land of Beariland for a long drawn out siege of Morgoth in Angband. I think this would be a very exciting prologue which could draw in the average movie viewer and inform them as well for the story ahead. Short but Sweet!

The movie would then flash forward to a present time of Beren wandering through the woods as an outlaw and discovering Luthien. They fall in love and Beren is sent on the quest to recover the Simaril by her father. The movie would be able to bring back Sauron from the earlier movies because he captures Beren and Luthien has to rescue him from Sauron. Beren and Luthien sneaking into Angband could surpass the Moria scenes in LOTR. Having the wolf biting off Berens hand would be a very dramatic scene. Beren's hunting down of the wolf would be the climax with Beren dying with Luthien dying soon after of grief. The happy ending would be Mandos returning Beren & Luthien to Middle Earth to live a short time as mortals together in Happiness.

This movie would have something for everybody. Middle Earth, a Love Story, and an Indiana Jones-type adventure story of rescuing a stolen artifact with a strong female character to boot. It seems to me that it could all be told in one movie also instead of having to be split up.

The only title I think would sell would be to have "Lord of the Rings" in the title even though it wouldn't technically be correct. Something like "The Lord of the Rings: The Quest for the Simaril" or something like that.

What do you think?

04-16-2002, 04:58 AM	#21
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	I agree that it's impossible to make a good film that will satisfy most people. The descriptions in the book leave enough to imagination to make many people's views of characters different. Also he was probably speaking with the current technology in mind- it has advanved, but not really enough for this film. I think PJ was just being adventurous, let's hope in another 10 years or so someone else has a better go, but I'll save that for the movie forum! __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

04-17-2002, 10:48 AM	#22
Finrod Felagund King of Nargothrond Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada! eh? Posts: 2,002	The Silmarillion isn't really a narrative story as much as a history. There is little actual character development except for Beren, Luthien and Turin. There are also a lot of characters. Difficult. Yes, extremely Impossible, I think not! __________________ "THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!"

09-20-2002, 08:56 PM	#23
Pippin Skywalker Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 93	Up to the sky you go my thread! __________________ Gimli: I'm Short! I'm Bad! I'm King of Khazaad! Note: That was not an actual quote from J.R.R. Tolkien's novel!

09-20-2002, 10:12 PM	#24
Sparky Sapling Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: the firey underworld Posts: 11	I think it is possible to do a movie of the Sil, but if they did the entire Sil it would have to be a series of movies. Or as someone else said, they could just do individual stories. Beren and Luthien is a love story and an adventure, so surely it would attract a large group of people. The story of the children of Hurin would also make a good movie, but it would be a tragedy. If it was done well, I imagine it could get a few oscar nominations __________________ I am an exception Ni!!!! That rabbit's dynamite!!!

09-22-2002, 01:01 PM	#25
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	I concur that most of the the stories in S would have to be filmed as seperate movies. The best cadidate for the first one would be Beren & Luthian. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 09-22-2002 at 01:02 PM.

09-23-2002, 10:39 AM	#26
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Hmm. More cheesy elvish with subtitles. Nobody hurry to make it OK? __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

10-25-2002, 02:59 AM	#27
Pippin Skywalker Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 93	Here's my thoughts on the matter...or more of them anyway! You know how Star Wars is the name of the franchise but the actual films have different titles? Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars: Attack of the Clones. What could be done (MAYBE) is the Silmarillion could be Silmarillion: Beren and Luthien (perhaps finding a more stylish way to do it than that...but like the above. The stories would be different ( i.e. their not all about Feanor or Turin) but their is a recognizable thread and "Feel" throughout. Of course a lot of dialogue will have to be written and perhaps as Peter Jackson did with LOTR roles will have to be extended various parts shortened and a number of other things. Naturally the FX, Scenery, Cinematography and so forth will have to be MUCH greater that LOTR since the Silmarilllion is set in a stranger even more fantastical time. __________________ Gimli: I'm Short! I'm Bad! I'm King of Khazaad! Note: That was not an actual quote from J.R.R. Tolkien's novel!

10-31-2002, 03:08 PM	#28
DraztiK Enting Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mol, Belgium Posts: 94	Or perhaps it would be better to make a TV-series out of it. Or maybe not, cos if they do I probably wouldn't get to see it, livin in Belgium and all. __________________ The name's DraztiK, but those whose name isn't totally blasted into Oblivion yet may call me DraZ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Our Armies in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales Our Brothers in Belgium, Holland and France will not fail. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, back to the Glory of Germany! ~Manowar - Blood of the Kings~

11-06-2002, 09:53 PM	#29
Lollypopgurl Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 222	Man, I would really like to see The Silmarillion if it was filmed. It's soooo cool!!!!! On my list of favorites LOTR and the Silmarillion are equal. I just love it soooooooo much!!!!!!! I'm not the world's best reader (English is a second language to me). But whenever I go back and re-read paragraphs, chapters, or the whole thing; I find new stuff that I hadn't noticed before. There's just so much stuff in that book. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ a violinist...

11-06-2002, 10:43 PM	#30
crickhollow The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas). Posts: 1,345	I agree with the consensus. Each story in the books could very easily make a movie itself. Dialogue would have to be crafted out of virtually nothing, but it could be done. The biggest problem that I can see is that the individual stories are so loosely linked together that it would be hard for mainstream audiences to follow the connections. __________________ A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun.

11-07-2002, 09:37 AM	#31
Bard Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Goes, Netherlands Posts: 29	Owkee, this is how it might be done: First film: The bannishment of the Noldor up to the sack of Beleriand at the battle of the Bragollach. Main roles: Keanu Reeves (Feanor), Kevin Kostner (Fingolfin), Ian Mac.Gregor (Finrod) Uma Thurman (Melian) and I haven`t figured out who`s best in the role of Thingol or Turgon yet. Second film: The destruction of beleriand up to the ending of the battle of unnumbered tears (including the lay of Leithian). Main roles: Hador Lorindol, Huor and Hurin, Beren, Luthien (Nathalie Portman) and the ones named up above. Third film: Túrin Turambar to Earendil and the fall of Morgoth. Main roles: Joseph Fiennes (Turin), Nienor, Finduilas, Beleg, Gwindor, Brandir, Mim, Tuor, Maedhros, Idril and Earendil. Maybe you guys could think about a good fillin of the roles? I think it could work out fine this way.

11-09-2002, 06:26 AM	#32
Pippin Skywalker Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 93	I think Jaoquin Pheonix might be an intersting Maglen (sp)? (eol's son). Kevin Costner in here? I dunno....lol A lot of times lesser known or even UNKOWNS actors are much better... Cate Blanchette is a better Galadriel than say Goldie Hawn or something like that...Anthony Hopkins could have done Saruman but he doesn't fit THAT role. Chris Lee is better. I think you can find some real Brilliant on fire actors if you look in the right places. Theater companies are good places to look. Though I am aware it helps to have at least few famous thespians to draw crowds. I LOVE hearing your different casting thoughts...please feel free to share them! __________________ Gimli: I'm Short! I'm Bad! I'm King of Khazaad! Note: That was not an actual quote from J.R.R. Tolkien's novel!

11-09-2002, 10:40 AM	#33
Bard Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Goes, Netherlands Posts: 29	Yeah Pippin, I`ve also thought about this Phoenix-guy, he made a great impression in Gladiator. I`ve also considered him for the role of Feanor, but I think he might be a better Maeglin. Owh another good actor in the role of Hurin (old Hurin) could be Sean Connery (another good one could have been Richard Harris alias Marcus Aurelius, but that ain`t possible anymore). Who else have we got than? Owh yeah, Silvester Stalone, Wesley Snipes, Arnold Schwarzenegger, J. Claude van Damme, Bruce Willis etc. can all be an Ork or Troll or something. Owh, lest I forget, the big negro-man in the Green Mile would make a great Troll to! That`s it for now than. Owh, and if I could play a role in the Sil. myself I`d like to play either Beleg Cuthalion or Finrod Felagund.

11-09-2002, 12:21 PM	#34
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Um, sorry folks, but just like Finrod, there is no actor in existance that could do justice to the role of his character.

12-18-2002, 07:16 PM	#35
Lollypopgurl Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 222	Natalie Portman as Luthien? I can imagine that. __________________ a violinist...

01-11-2003, 01:09 AM	#36
CaranIstar Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 32	Keanu Reeves as Feanor? That's really scary... Who was that bloke who played the Red Dragon.... I think he'd make a good Feanor. Yeah, I'd agree with Joaquin Pheonix being a good Maeglin. One wonders, what would the fair forms of Melkor and Sauron look like? Who'd play them before they became stuck in foul form?

01-12-2003, 07:13 AM	#37
Alquagarwaen Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 12	u have no idea You should know Peregrin Tuk, that the director has changed many important concepts of the book, invented (like when the Nazgul saw Frodo in Osgiliath) lot of scenes, changed the characters´ way of thinking (like the attitudes of Faramir)and act, and distructed lot of VERY importatant things in both movies. Also did not included fundamental things (example: the succeding of Saruman and the nomination of Mithrandir as the new leader of the White Council). As I see it, "The return of the king" is unfilmable in only one movie, becouse his duration is too long for only one movie. But our "brilliant" and "excelent" director resumed this book in 3 hours of movie(becouse it was filmed the 3 movies at once, and the third one takes that time as long). The director of art is a real shining mind, but the direction of the movie as story is a big piece of ****.

01-13-2003, 09:27 AM	#38
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Well said. I hate directors who put their spin onto books instead of directing what's written. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

01-13-2003, 04:03 PM	#39
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The real question is whether a movie can convey the grandeur of the silmarillion. The story can be told, but its not just the plot that makes it great. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-15-2003, 04:59 PM	#40
Noahamir Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 29	As others have pointed out, the best way to tackle the Simarillion would be to make a movie of one of the stories within the bigger book. Many have pointed to the story Of Beren and Luthien which I think would be the best also. The way I imagine this movie would be to have a 15 to 20 minute Prologue much like in "Fellowship of the Ring" explaining the back history before diving into the main movie story. The Prologue would have short scenes and voice narration showing Feanor crafting the Three Simarills, Melkor being released from the Halls of Mandos and then killing Feanor's father while stealing the three Jewels. Show Scenes of Melkor escaping to Middle Earth and placing them in an Iron Crown and Feanor's Oath to recapture the Jewels. Then show Feanor leading the Noldor out of Valinor back to Middle Earth and dying before the gates of Angband by the hands of the Balrog, Gothmag. End the Prologue by saying the Elves settled down in the land of Beariland for a long drawn out siege of Morgoth in Angband. I think this would be a very exciting prologue which could draw in the average movie viewer and inform them as well for the story ahead. Short but Sweet! The movie would then flash forward to a present time of Beren wandering through the woods as an outlaw and discovering Luthien. They fall in love and Beren is sent on the quest to recover the Simaril by her father. The movie would be able to bring back Sauron from the earlier movies because he captures Beren and Luthien has to rescue him from Sauron. Beren and Luthien sneaking into Angband could surpass the Moria scenes in LOTR. Having the wolf biting off Berens hand would be a very dramatic scene. Beren's hunting down of the wolf would be the climax with Beren dying with Luthien dying soon after of grief. The happy ending would be Mandos returning Beren & Luthien to Middle Earth to live a short time as mortals together in Happiness. This movie would have something for everybody. Middle Earth, a Love Story, and an Indiana Jones-type adventure story of rescuing a stolen artifact with a strong female character to boot. It seems to me that it could all be told in one movie also instead of having to be split up. The only title I think would sell would be to have "Lord of the Rings" in the title even though it wouldn't technically be correct. Something like "The Lord of the Rings: The Quest for the Simaril" or something like that. What do you think?