What's your opinion of Dwarves?

[Menelvagor]

Ok, here's my 2 cents, buck fifty, euro, peice of eight, what have you.

I always end up confused when I think about the dwarves. What I found particularly interesting about them was the way the rings affected them, makeing their greed for gold greater, but not corrupting them to evil. They are probably the most enduring of the races (although you could argue for the hobbits) and the contributed not a little to the overthrow of Sauron. I find their personal history intriguing (the Battle of Azanulbizar I found very interesting) the can be almost as surprising as hobbits, and yet at the same time are utterly predictable. They seem to make me think in hypocrisies; I love their secret nature, why do they not teach anyone their language? And I wish I knew more about them, but at the same time, if we knew more about them I probably would not find them half so interesting. Anything that can make me think like that deserves my attention. (I LIKE to confuse myself, lol) They are JRRT's wild card, something put in rather randomly that makes people think, much as they were for Illuvatar, not being part of the Music and his Origional Plan.

[Ñólendil]

Very well put. But what do you mean by "enduring"? Surely we, "Men", Human-kind, we are are the most enduring Children, the best fit to endure the rigorous sands of Time. After all, we "rule the Earth" and Hobbits are hiding in holes somewhere, what Elves there are are wraiths haunting the homes of mortals and faded folk lingering sadly by the springs and trees. If there are Dwarrows left in the wide world they are not many and are shy of the Sun.

[afro-elf]

but if he meant physical stamina then surely elves were Indefatigable

aragorn and gimli were probably exemplars of stamina for their races but while they needed rest legolas would have run on like the energizer bunny

[Glîm Iceholder]

but if he meant physical stamina then surely elves were Indefatigable

It depends on you use of the word enduring. It says( in the Sil) the dwarves endure hunger and pains of the body more hardily than any other speaking people. Plus Galadriel (in the UT) says Dwarves are the ultimate fighters against the Orcs. Not to mention we are told (in the Sil) that Dwarves are most effective against Dragons because they can withstand the heat of fire better. There is also that Dwarves cannot yield to any will other than there own. Lets see what else, Dwarves, like Elves, are immune to diseases as told in the Peoples of Middle Earth.

Anyway, if you haven't guessed it by now; I think Dwarves are the best, they just are.

aragorn and gimli were probably exemplars of stamina for their races

Aragorn is the greatest of all men on earth, so of course he would have far better stamina than anyone else in his race.

However Gimli doesn't seem to be, nor by his heritage should he be, far greater than any other dwarf. I would like to see your reasoning why was a "exemplar of stamina for his race".

[Menelvagor]

I meant enduring in many senses of the word. Men change, as a product of their short (comparatively) life-spans, things naturally shift from generation to generation and they have conciderably less memory of the past than the other races. They are phisically stronger, able to hold out longer in phisical labor (In response to the Elves, I think they not so much endure the work as escape from it, like Legolas resting while the Three Hunters were running, which is doubtless a better way to do things, but hardly indicative of strength). Also, I was thinking of the effects of the rings. In dwarves, the rings of power do not corrupt them, it twists them, but it never brings them to malice like the other races, only inflames their desire for wealth.

[afro-elf]

It says( in the Sil) the dwarves endure hunger and pains of the body more hardily than any other speaking people.

where in the SIL does say this? in the UT or BOLT Voronwe makes a statement to that effect about the Noldor

Plus Galadriel (in the UT) says Dwarves are the ultimate fighters against the Orcs.

however Tolkiens say this:

Sauron "had no enemies so great and so fell as were the Noldor in their might in the Elder Days".



as for the eldar of the 3 age he says this:

"there was nothing filmy or transparent about the heroic or majestic Eldar of the Third Age of Middle-earth. Long afterwards, my father (Cristopher Tolkien's referring to Ronald - E.G.) would write, in a wrathful comment on a "pretty" or "ladylike" pictorial rendering of Legolas:

He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock and through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship."


PM inolendil for the exact reference

Not to mention we are told (in the Sil) that Dwarves are most effective against Dragons because they can withstand the heat of fire better.

true

Dwarves, like Elves, are immune to diseases as told in the Peoples of Middle Earth.

is that ALL disease like elves or is it only mannish diseases

I would like to see your reasoning why was a "exemplar of stamina for his race".

I qualified my statement with "probably" because I was just making a case needed some leeway

[afro-elf]

It says( in the Sil) the dwarves endure hunger and pains of the body more hardily than any other speaking people.

i found the quote its in aule and yavanna

They are phisically stronger, able to hold out longer in phisical labor (In response to the Elves, I think they not so much endure the work as escape from it,

yeah maybe its a matter of dwarves being made of stone ( physicalness)

while elves are fire and air

meaning that dwarves work on muslce power and elves on spirit power

[afro-elf]

I think i could explain it better this way the elven FEA' was far great than other races

so while dwarves relied on their bodies to do work

the elves just sort floated along their labor using the strength of their FEA'

SOUL-ar power so to speak

[emplynx]

I prefer them marinated, grilled, and served on rye.









(P.S. I didn't read any of this thread, that is just my annoying responce, sorry)

[Earniel]

I like dwarves although they are perhaps not the most sociable kind. They are honest, and if they didn't like you I'm sure they made it clear. And therefore they can be rude. The Rings cannot corrupt them, for they are not interested in power. They care only for gold and perhaps quaffing malt beer. (mmm I think there might be a disc world mixup here) It is in my opinion hard to win their trust and friendship, but if you succeeded in that you'll hardly ever loose it. They're also no-nonsense, they are practical and they geot down to business as soon as possible.

[Menelvagor]

Originally posted by afro-elf
I think i could explain it better this way the elven FEA' was far great than other races

so while dwarves relied on their bodies to do work

the elves just sort floated along their labor using the strength of their FEA'

SOUL-ar power so to speak

Yeah, something like that.

[Glîm Iceholder]

is that ALL disease like elves or is it only mannish diseases

----------------
' Dwarves of different 'breeds' vary in their longevity. Durin's race were originally long-lived (especially those named Durin), but like most other peoples they had become less so during the Third Age. Their average age (unless they met a violent death) was about 250 years, which they seldom fell far short of, but could occasionally far exceed (up to 300).[17] A Dwarf of 300 was about as rare and aged as a Man of 100.

Dwarves remained young - e.g. regarded as too tender for really hard work or for fighting - until they were 30 or nearly that (Dain II was very young in 2799 (32) and his slaying of Azog was a great feat). After that they hardened and took on the appearance of age (by human standards) very quickly. By forty all Dwarves looked much alike in age, until they reached what they regarded as old age, about 240. Then they began to age and wrinkle and go white quickly (baldness being unknown among them), unless they were going to be long-lived, in which case the process was delayed. Almost the only physical disorder they suffered from (they were singularly immune from diseases such as affected Men, and Halflings) was corpulence. If in prosperous circumstances, many grew very fat at or before 200, and could not do much (save eat) afterwards. Otherwise 'old age' lasted not much more than ten years, and from say 40 or a little before to near 240 (two hundred years) the capacity for toil (and for fighting) of most Dwarves was equally great. '

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I suppose you could try to argue Tolkien said it was "almost the only physichal disorder". But it seems that they were completly immune to diseases.

[Ñólendil]

PM inolendil for the exact reference

Nólendil. "inolendil" is (was) Darth's doing. PM Tar-Elendil, I don't know the exact reference. One of the HoLR books.

[afro-elf]

I suppose you could try to argue Tolkien said it was "almost the only physichal disorder". But it seems that they were completly immune to diseases.

I take it that they would me immune to almost all. perhaps some rare virulent diease or many like the one cooked up by Sauron in 3rd age circa 1600

[afro-elf]

However Gimli doesn't seem to be, nor by his heritage should he be, far greater than any other dwarf. I would like to see your reasoning why was a "exemplar of stamina for his race".

there is a statement i believe in the ring goes south about gimli stamina being equal to ANY dwarf

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

Dwarves are cool!! And men are just as greedy!

[Ërendil]

I don't really like dwarves that much, i prefer elves and hobbits. I like Gimli because he is in the fellowship but i haven't read the Hobbit because it is mostly baout Bilbo and the Dwarves (well i think it is...correct me if im wrong).

[Arwen4ever]

Dwarves are greedy. I prefer elves. Elves are wonderful!!!!!!!!

[azalea]

I love Dwarves! "We like the dark! Dark for dark business!"

[stormcrow]

I wish I was fluent in Khuzdul, but so few non-dwarves have ever mastered it....

In LOTR, (as mentioned above) Tolkien points out the fierce loyalty of dwarves and makes them out to be good friends indeed, like Gimli. In the Hobbit, on the other hand, although likable the dwarves come off as a more fickle lot. Think about all the time Bilbo saved them along the way, and how they kept making him go first, do things, etc... slightly cowardly. And at the end, after all his efforts, he was still expelled in wrath from the group by Thorin (although eventually Thorin regretted his words). I feel that the vision of dwarves in the Hobbit is slightly different from that elsewhere. I like the dwarves of LOTR much more than I like or respect those of the Hobbit.