Sauron and the Balrog

[Ñólendil]

Saruman most certainly did not start any snow-storm in the book. That's just the movie. The starter of the blizzard was a spirit, a mysterious spirit long known to the Dwarves who Aragorn supposes may have been in the world longer than Sauron. If you haven't read the books in a while, I'd take the movie with a grain of salt as far as accordance with the book goes. Many people now think that the Uruk-hai were the Half-orcs, for example.

[barrelrider110]

Ahem, begging your pardon Mr. Ñólendil,

I have reread the chapter. Very recently.

Pardon me for getting off the thread but

there is no definitive reason given behind the snowstorm in LOTR.

Below are quotes from all references to the suspected origin of the storm in LOTR Book II Chap. 3 "The Ring Goes South"

Gandalf halted. Snow was thick on his hood and shoulders; it was already ankle-deep about his boots. "This is what I feared,' he said. `What do you say now, Aragorn?' 'That I feared it too,' Aragorn answered, `but less than other things. I knew the risk of snow, though it seldom falls heavily so far south, save high up in the mountains. But we are not high yet; we are still far down, where the paths are usually open all the winter.' 'I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy,' said Boromir. "They say in my land that he can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies.' 'His arm has grown long indeed,' said Gimli, `if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.' 'His arm has grown long,' said Gandalf.

Further on...

The Company halted suddenly, as if they had come to an agreement without any words being spoken. They heard eerie noises in the darkness round them. It may have been only a trick of the wind in the cracks and gullies of the rocky wall, but the sounds were those of shrill cries, and wild howls of laughter. Stones began to fall from the mountain-side, whistling over their heads, or crashing on the path beside them. Every now and again they heard a dull rumble, as a great boulder rolled down from hidden heights above. `We cannot go further tonight,' said Boromir. `Let those call it the wind who will; there are fell voices on the air; and these stones are aimed at us.' `I do call it the wind,' said Aragorn. `But that does not make what you say untrue. There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been in this world longer than he.' 'Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name, said Gimli, `long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.' `It matters said Gandalf.

finally...

Gimli looked up and shook his head. `Caradhras has not forgiven us.' he said. `He has more snow yet to fling at us, if we go on. The sooner we go back and down the better.'

Gimli thinks it is the spirit of the mountain,
Boromir thinks it's Sauron,
Aragorn is non-committal,
Gandalf agrees somwhat with Boromir:"His arm has grown long."

In addition, consider the following quote from Gandalf prior to the Fellowship ascending the pass:
“From signs that we have seen lately,' said Gandalf, 'I fear that the Redhorn Gate may be watched; and also I have doubts of the weather that is coming up behind. Snow may come. We must go with all the speed that we can.”
So Gandalf knows what's coming. He also may have an idea as to who started it, but he's not saying.

That leaves the origin of the snowstorm up to interpretation, unless you can point to some other reference of which I am not aware. (I did say afterall it was an unoriginal crackpot theory).

I do agree with you that it is unwise to confuse the movie with the book. PJ took a bit too much license, but in this case he stayed within the gray area.

RE The Balrog's allegiance with Sauron:
I agree with bropous.

[Ñólendil]

I don't agree that Aragorn was 'non-committal'. It seems plain to me that Aragorn supposed the spirit was a spirit who had been in the world longer than Sauron and was not in league with him. Gimli's people have known of the spirit of Caradhras for some while. I don't see how it could possibly be Sauron. "A mysterious spirit long known to the Dwarves who Aragorn supposes may have been in the world longer than Sauron" is not really a definitive reason in my eyes, in that the spirit is mysterious and we have no idea what it really is. It is a spirit and it's obviously mysterious, and Aragorn does suppose it may have been in the world longer than Sauron. So I stand by my post.

[barrelrider110]

I still don't see a definitive answer, no matter how many times I read the text, and I will not discuss it further as I started off on a tangent anyway. We will agree to disagree. This might be a good topic for a new thread, eh?

[Valarauko5]

Seeing as I am a balrog I am trying to go around clearing up myths about us. Here is a perfect opportunity. Need I explain that in the Silmarillion there is no reference to a balrog being under the command of Sauron? Sauron and Gothmog are equally important, just in different aspects. Sauron was in charge of the werewolves and the torture and fear aspect. To my knowledge he never leads an army while Morgoth is around. Gothmog does all that until he's killed. After which I can't remember any references to balrogs except their flight from the Valar's wrath when Morgoth is chained for the second time. We don't need some candy offering sweet tooth Sauron who goes off covorting with elves and men to help us maim kill and destroy. We're rather skilled at that. And if given the chance, I'm sure my daddy in charge of Moria would have built up an army and told off Sauron, making him serve. I would find a balrog a lot scarier than Sauron to be honest. What if the balrog had gotten the ring? So yes, I think Sauron knew all about daddy balrog in Moria. That's part of why he was so desperate to get the ring. Daddy balrog was building his army in Moria, having taken over management of the orcs and trolls Sauron sent.

[ragamuffin92]

I hope that you and Daddy Balrog aren't offended, but please don't expect too many of us to show up at any of your family reunions, birthday parties, or New Years Eve or Superbowl get-togethers, etc.

[Valarauko5]

No worries. Ever since stupid old Gandalf decided to smash him to pieces I haven't been very social.