I have posted my review at Suite101

[Darth Tater]

I've been reading your articles throughout this thread MM, and it's strange, but I don't find a single word of logic in them. You honestly think my image of Strider is going to lead people to smoking? Funny, but I have no memory of a cigarette company exec coming up to me and asking me to draw it.

I'm as anti-smoking as the next guy, even more so. I spent months a couple years ago researching the subject so I could argue with the druggies I know. Yes, I'm aware of the harmfull affects of pipesmoking. Were you aware that pipes cause more second hand smoke then first hand? Yep. It's true. They should be illegal. Of course they should.

But this is a movie! And this is not a film financed by the tobacco companies either! Find me one shred of evidence that PJ included smoking because he was paid to, and not because he wanted it in there for artistic purposes.

[Monty]

Nope, you're wrong about the smoking. You have taken a personal issue and projected it onto something in a way which is completely out of proportion. Someone has already mentioned the absurdity of taking issue with smoking and not batting an eyelid at the violence, but if we are to take your tack we may as well dismiss Tolkien for promoting racism and minimising women (both of which arguments I have heard passionately argued by people who would shake their heads in bemusement at your stand).

We know you hate smoking. It's a stupid habit. We get that. Let it go. What a nightmare the movie would have been had it attempted to conform to every nuance of political correctness.

[webwizard333]

MM has every right to fight against the presence of smoking in the movies if he chooses to. Though I do not see it as that harmful, the presence of smoking was there. Though, I felt the only place for me where it seemed to fit was when Gandalf was sitting in front of the fire, muttering to himself. I found the scene on the hill to be a little silly and Gandalf in the study smoking should not have been there. If your an old man, and your eyesights failing (I'm going to assume his was, but that's probably a mistake), or even if it wasn't, he's in a poorly lit room and is reading. Now is smoke the sort of thing you want obscuring your vision. I don't know, but (here's another probably wrong assumption) wouldn't you want to have no view obstructions. And I was also waiting for him to set fire to the documents by accident with that pipe. But back to the original point, I don't think it was nessecary, but it did contribute to the overall feel of the story being authentic.

[Lelondul]

The simple fact is that Michael cannot ethically take such an anti-smoking stance while turning a blind eye to the drinking in the film (or the violence, or the hobbit's ocassional gluttony), of which several references, both verbal and visual exist. It is common knowledge that alcohol is the most abused drug in the nation (and perhaps the world), and leads to far more deaths (and deaths of other non-drinkers) than smoking. I eagerly await to hear the rationale on this.

Yes Tater, I guess we who have romantic visions of smoking in Middle-earth are the hapless victims of a predatory Hollywood, bent on making us all cancer-riddled smoke-stacks. Poppycock! It is my belief that those who will be negatively influenced by such suggesive material are ripe for the influence of any number of perilous habits, it is not the responsibility of P.J. to detract from the source material with these cretin's 'protection' in mind.

Again, I have no problem with each having their own opinion, but one must be equilateral in addressing all aspects of such 'destructive' behaviour.

[bropous]

Yes, I read your review, and even though it is mostly a good one, the puerile whining about tobacco use in the film destroys your credibility. I can do without preachy twelve-stepping sanctimony over the Longbottom Leaf.

[Kevin McIntyre]

Regardless how people feel about smoking, there are those that smoke. To compare small pox to tobacco is way off base. Regardless of how someone is influenced (whether it be movies, print media, parents, friends whatever) smoking is a choice, diseases like small pox, polio have nothing to do with choice. However this is a tolkien site and quite frankly he took the time to explain pipe-weed development in the prologue, used it througout the story, and wrote more than one essay regarding smoking so lets just leave it be.

The Galadriel freak out scenes (as people seem to be calling it) was chilling - the words were straight from the text, and she did look terrible and worshipful, althought her beauty seemed a but lost. But her appearance is meant to change during this scene. I just wish Sam was there, not so much to look into the mirror, but to not see the ring or the transformation. But thats just me.

[Ñólendil]

I'll keep out of the main debate, but I would like to say that accusing Darth Tater of murder is a bit over the top

[Michael Martinez]

Having sex is a choice, and people still get AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases from that. People also show more concern over sexually transmitted diseases than they do over tobacco use, and tobacco still manages to kill or sicken more people than AIDS.

Obviously, ignorance is going to prevail in this debate for a long time to come, and that is the saddest statement our society can make about itself.

But those who defend or justify the evil that the film industry engages in are not excused from responsibility for that evil.

We can all work together to change the way our society tries to destroy us by criticizing the wrongful expressions of art and demanding a more responsible entertainment industry.

[Kevin McIntyre]

Of course Michael you will run into the argument of whether art influences or reflects culture and society. I knew aids would come into this at some point. Well my attitude is that if someone wants to smoke they are going to smoke, or drink, or do herion for that matter. Granted I do not want kids taking up the habit, but to remove any reference in our art or media rings of prohibition - and we all know how well that worked.

[Michael Martinez]

Prohibition is mandated by a government. I'm just asking the entertainment industry to stop helping murder millions of people.

What we know here in the United States about tobacco is not generally known around the world. Most people who take up tobacco products in the next few years will not be making informed decisions. They are still being lied to.

[Kevin McIntyre]

This a Tolkien site so lets just agree to disagree on this.

[hama]

Michael,

You are the most informed and insightful expert on Tolkien that I know. Your support of my musical project has been honest and appreciated. Your passion against a habit/addiction is admirable.

However I find your comment about "ignorance" to be a bit of a flame. I also think you are delving into areas of censorship which are best left untouched. A director puts on screen elements of the source material. Mallethorpe places a crucifix in a glass of urine. An artist creates a picture of the Madonna with pornographic images and cow dung. Where do we draw the line.

I understand that tobacco causes physical harm but who are we to say the harm done to faithful christians is any less? I could give other examples but those are the two that pop into mind at the moment.

Brad Marston

[Michael Martinez]

Censorship can only be practiced by a government, and it is an act whereby a work of art or journalism is edited against the will of the originator. So censorship has nothing to do with this.

And though I certainly don't wish to insult anyone, there is plainly a strong and determined point-of-view being expressed here which is firmly grounded in ignorance.

If you feel my responses are inappropriate, then there are certainly a number of options available to you and to me, but I'm not going to softpad the truth. People are dismissing the anti-tobacco concerns as if they don't mean anything. Thousands of people and hundreds of organizations around the world have been fighting this ignorance for decades. It's not going to vanish overnight, and certainly not if the truth is silenced in a forum which allows opposing views to be expressed with no response to them.

And you should note that I have not taken the misinformation that you and others have posted here (implying that I am taking out my anger against smokers, or that I have suggested somehow that Peter Jackson took money from the tobacco companies) and used it as an excuse to say or imply things about you.

This is not as personal an issue as you have mistaken it to be. I have strong personal feelings on the subject. I have admitted to that. But I'm doing the right thing, pointing out what is necessary, and standing up to people who would beat down the truth for their own reasons.

If any of you can show me that not even one life will be affected by the smoking in the movies, my concerns will be alleviated. If, however, you cannot demonstrate even so small a thing, then please don't do me the discourtesy of misrepresenting this as "a personal issue".

Perhaps the best thing you can do is lock this thread so we can all move on.

[Kevin McIntyre]

When everyone everywhere knows all of the facts do you think that no one will smoke. I completly understand the ramifications of smoking, and would never promote it, but using smoking in a movie is not promotion it is portrayal - Hobbits smoke, Gandalf smokes, Strider smokes, Gimli smokes.
Should we stop promoting junk food because there is a drastic problem in the US with obesity and it could be seen as irresponsible to promote Twinkies.

Claiming that I or anyone else in this forum is ignorant shows the troubling arrogance of the Politically Correct crowd.

[Michael Martinez]

When everyone everywhere understands the peril of using any form of tobacco, the fight will still be in its early stages. But at least the people who choose to use tobacco, knowing its perils, will be responsible for their own sorrows. To stand idly by and make excuses when people are being deceived is as bad as the deception itself.

You would run into a burning house to save a child, would you not? It takes considerably less effort, and you expose yourself to far less danger, to stand up for the truth about tobacco.

[Kevin McIntyre]

There are millions problems in the world. Religous extremism, slavery, oppression, racism, sexism, child abuse. Smoking is pretty far down my list. Now if you are talking about corporate greed of which to tobacco companies are guilty (but by no means alone) then yea sure I cry bloody murder about that all the time.

[Michael Martinez]

Your low priority for smoking (only one aspect of the tobacco use problem) won't heal the sick, restore the dead to life, or prevent millions more people from walking down a path which should never have been laid before them.

[Kevin McIntyre]

With your continued pursuit on this issue i can see I've come across a true believer and as such shows little tolerance for others opinions. Educate people against smoking, its a great fight, but don't tell me i have to fight to. The future of the nation, or mankind is not in jeopordy because of tobacco. which historically has been seen as an ill gotten habit and yet it has flourished.

Michael my main objection to your line of thinking is that I always see a very thin line between Saying you shouldn't do something and saying you can't do something. Thats where I am coming from with the prohibition reference. The temperance movement existed for a long time in this country, and had enacted local laws preventing people from drinking, eventually this crusade led to prohibition and hence creating criminals of most of america.

[FrodoFriend]

MM, when I see people walking down the street smoking foot long pipes and claiming they took up smoking because Gandalf does it, then I'll agree that the smoking scene shouldn't be there. But I really doubt that that will happen. You are overreacting, and accusing people of murder for not agreeing with you is going too far. It's frankly ridiculous.
Are people going to start wearing swords and going barefoot because of FotR too? Why not complain that the barefootness of the hobbits will lead to deadly cases of pneumonia? I seriously doubt that any one will die from taking up smoking because of this movie.
FURTHERMORE, if people do want to smoke, it's their right to do so. If they die because of this, it's their OWN STUPID FAULT!! Not anyone on this forum's, not Peter Jackson's, not even the tobacco companies. Smoking is a personal decision. If people want to jump off cliffs, they'll do it, and if they want to risk death by smoking, they'll do that too. You can't stop them and you have no right to anyway. It's not the movies fault that people choose to smoke and die in consequence.
Just let Gandalf and Bilbo enjoy their smoke, will ya? It's pipeweed anyway, not tobacco.

Anyway, since the movie's already out there's nothing you can do about it.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Kevin McIntyre
[B]With your continued pursuit on this issue i can see I've come across a true believer and as such shows little tolerance for others opinions.

That's an extremely childish attitude to take, and it shows that you are extremely intolerant. What happened to your agreeing to disagree? Why did you insist on dragging this out, so that you could inevitably flame me?

Wallow in ignorance and insults all you wish, but if the best you can offer for your lack of regard for human life is to attack my character, I think I'll gladly stay on my side of the fence, thank you. It's much nicer over here, where politeness and tolerance for other viewpoints means something.