The Matrix - Page 2

***azalea*** · 03-08-2003, 12:20 AM

It wasn't so confusing that I couldn't understand it, but I'll admit I did rewind a few times (but I like to do that anyway, to others' great annoyance).

Was it based on a book? If so, I'd love to read it.

Linaewen · 03-08-2003, 06:55 AM

I don't think so
Have you watched Minority Report?
That was based on a short story. I think that was harder to get than the Matrix. It gets a tad confusing

Lalaith · 03-08-2003, 07:14 AM

Thanks for the link.
We started to watch it yesterday (I have seen the movie like 6 times before) and our teacher gave us a similar copy of this. Explaining all the names and so on.

***IronParrot*** · 03-08-2003, 05:27 PM

The Matrix was an original story, though the philosophy behind it can be traced way, way back, and there's definitely a lot of very direct symbolism.

And on a tangent here... I absolutely adored Minority Report, though I've never read Philip K. Dick's original short story, and it's one of those films where you'll catch something new every time you see it if you didn't really get it the first time.

Cirdan · 03-08-2003, 11:24 PM

I just watch it again tonight. Such a great movie. Story, composition, technology, soundtrack, sets; everything is great.

***azalea*** · 03-08-2003, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IronParrot
...the philosophy behind it can be traced way, way back, and there's definitely a lot of very direct symbolism.

I'd love to hear more about this if you ever have time. Is there commentary about it on the dvd?

(Minority Report -- another one I kept rewinding on! Great movie!)

BeardofPants · 03-09-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cirdan
I just watch it again tonight. Such a great movie. Story, composition, technology, soundtrack, sets; everything is great.

Except for the screen play. I hope they do a better job with the scripts for the next two movies.

Cirdan · 03-09-2003, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Except for the screen play. I hope they do a better job with the scripts for the next two movies.

Matrix One
"You are the one."

"No, I'm not."

"Yes, you are."

"Well, OK."

Matrix 2

"I'm the one."
"No, your not"
"am too"
Well, OK"

Matrix 3

"I'm still the one"
"but your dead"
"then she's the one"
"ahhhh, I see"

Lalaith · 03-09-2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

(Minority Report -- another one I kept rewinding on! Great movie!)

Yeah, I really liked Minority Report, too.

Quote:

Except for the screen play. I hope they do a better job with the scripts for the next two movies

What's wrong with the screenplay?

Ornelírë Mistë · 04-04-2003, 08:54 PM

Loved the Matrix. Favorite guy was Mouse, the little programmer guy.
Lots of Christian parallels in the game Deus Ex. Brilliant game- I recommend getting it. Sequel is slotted for June.

congressmn · 04-05-2003, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
I just love the first movie and I'm really looking forward to the next two.
We soon shall watch the first one again - in our catholic lessons (I don't know how to call in english). Our teacher says that Matrix has something to do with god and believing. Well, let's see.

ure teacher is an idiot. she's dumb. kill her!

god and matrix. god is she crazy or wht?

matrix is all about good programming.

believe me, God is messing around with ure teacher.

Lalaith · 04-05-2003, 04:34 AM

I don't think that my teacher is an idiot and we talked about the movie and there are things that are similar to the christian believings.
Yesterday I watched Crouching Tiger & Hidden Dragon, betweed it and the Matrix are so many similarities. It's unbelievable.

Coney · 04-05-2003, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cirdan
Matrix One
"You are the one."

"No, I'm not."

"Yes, you are."

"Well, OK."

Matrix 2

"I'm the one."
"No, your not"
"am too"
Well, OK"

Matrix 3

"I'm still the one"
"but your dead"
"then she's the one"
"ahhhh, I see"

I like the movie, in fact I just got around to buying a copy last Monday...............

I just wish they'd picked a different actor than Keanu Reeves, that guy is about as charismatic as a eunuch in an orgy

***Fat middle*** · 04-05-2003, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
I don't think that my teacher is an idiot and we talked about the movie and there are things that are similar to the christian believings.
Yesterday I watched Crouching Tiger & Hidden Dragon, betweed it and the Matrix are so many similarities. It's unbelievable.

i found some similarities. if not with christianism, at least with christian moratlity.

what it's clear to me, congressmn, is that it's not "about good programming"

what do you mean with that?

matrix is about the way you choose in your life. it first affirms that free will does exist. cannot remember the quote, but i think it's in the first dialogue between Neo and Morpheus. Neo refuses to think his life is determined and chooses to tread his own way though he knows that may be perilous. The Matrix is an imagine of determinism against free will.

then, we have Cypher's choice. (thre's an obvious refference in his name to Lucifer). he chooses a life full of pleasures, but most of all, the forfeit he asks for his betrayal is "don't remember anything". in other words, he refuse to "know the truth" of his life.

christian morality is based on this idea: man is free to choose, but his choice must be based in the truth. his choice is right (good) if he lives in the truth; if he lives in the wrong or does not want to know the truth, he's choosing the evil.

this is opposed to relativism, where the existence of "truth" is denied, and so the free will is only free choice and morality dissappears.

IMHO Matrix is related to Christian morality because it affirms the existence of a difficult-to-know and difficul-to-choose truth.

the programming stuff is also funny, though

Lalaith · 04-05-2003, 08:28 AM

I like your description Fat Middle.

Coney · 04-05-2003, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fat middle
i found some similarities. if not with christianism, at least with christian moratlity.

what it's clear to me, congressmn, is that it's not "about good programming" what do you mean with that?

matrix is about the way you choose in your life. it first affirms that free will does exist. cannot remember the quote, but i think it's in the first dialogue between Neo and Morpheus. Neo refuses to think his life is determined and chooses to tread his own way though he knows that may be perilous. The Matrix is an imagine of determinism against free will.

then, we have Cypher's choice. (thre's an obvious refference in his name to Lucifer). he chooses a life full of pleasures, but most of all, the forfeit he asks for his betrayal is "don't remember anything". in other words, he refuse to "know the truth" of his life.

christian morality is based on this idea: man is free to choose, but his choice must be based in the truth. his choice is right (good) if he lives in the truth; if he lives in the wrong or does not want to know the truth, he's choosing the evil.

this is opposed to relativism, where the existence of "truth" is denied, and so the free will is only free choice and morality dissappears.

IMHO Matrix is related to Christian morality because it affirms the existence of a difficult-to-know and difficul-to-choose truth.

the programming stuff is also funny, though

Interesting. I always saw the film as more of an allegory about throwing off the restraints of christianity tho'..

If we look at some of the more obvious symbolism-

When Morpheous offers the choice of the red pill, or the blue pill. Everyone can see the reflection of the tale of The Serpent offering Adam and Eve the choice to eat from The Tree of Knowledge.

Zion, the last human city, is descibred as being "Deep underground, near the earth's core, where it is still warm".....pretty much where folks used to believe Hell was.

The real world is a desert that has a burning sky, see The Book of Revalations for that one

Agent Smith describes the first Matrix as "A paradise, a perfect world.........it was a disaster, Humans would not accept the program"........that pretty much sums up the whole book of Genesis.

The only way Neo can defeat the Matrix is by refusing to conform to the "natural" laws the Matrix has placed upon him...........to beat the Matrix he has to believe that it has no power over him.

Cypher's choice is more about returning to a life of blissfull ingnorance. He would rather take comfort in the illusion that is the Matrix and deny the truth. He has seen the truth, and he hates it.

BeardofPants · 04-05-2003, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Yeah, I really liked Minority Report, too.

What's wrong with the screenplay?

The script is very cheesey, and wooden, IMO. Cirdan did a pretty good example.

congressmn · 04-05-2003, 10:31 AM

It is ALL ABOUT GOOD PROGRAMMING.

tell me seomthing: there would be NO MATRIX if there wasnt AI, and AI was a result of good programming.

sO IN conlusion and summary, good programming brings the end of a notable era of men. They had spread like a virus, and eventually their programming talents KILL THEM, well kinda any way, in a notable context at least.

And talkin bout christianity and the oracle's predictions, they are all so wrong. NEO was the ONE.

I think the watchowski brothers inadvertently put some christianity there if you know wht i mean.

So it's all about GOOD PROGRAMMING ANd it ain not one bit funny.

***Fat middle*** · 04-05-2003, 12:29 PM

Lalaith · 04-05-2003, 12:58 PM

yeah, it might be about good programming, but in the background it still has something to do with christianity, like some explained above.
And another thing. ZION is actually a place from the bible.

03-08-2003, 07:14 AM	#23
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Thanks for the link. We started to watch it yesterday (I have seen the movie like 6 times before) and our teacher gave us a similar copy of this. Explaining all the names and so on. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-08-2003, 05:27 PM	#24
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	The Matrix was an original story, though the philosophy behind it can be traced way, way back, and there's definitely a lot of very direct symbolism. And on a tangent here... I absolutely adored Minority Report, though I've never read Philip K. Dick's original short story, and it's one of those films where you'll catch something new every time you see it if you didn't really get it the first time. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

03-08-2003, 11:24 PM	#25
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	I just watch it again tonight. Such a great movie. Story, composition, technology, soundtrack, sets; everything is great. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

04-05-2003, 04:34 AM	#32
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I don't think that my teacher is an idiot and we talked about the movie and there are things that are similar to the christian believings. Yesterday I watched Crouching Tiger & Hidden Dragon, betweed it and the Matrix are so many similarities. It's unbelievable. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

04-05-2003, 08:28 AM	#35
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I like your description Fat Middle. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

03-08-2003, 12:20 AM	#21
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	It wasn't so confusing that I couldn't understand it, but I'll admit I did rewind a few times (but I like to do that anyway, to others' great annoyance). Was it based on a book? If so, I'd love to read it.

03-08-2003, 06:55 AM	#22
Linaewen Fair Dinkum Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,319	I don't think so Have you watched Minority Report? That was based on a short story. I think that was harder to get than the Matrix. It gets a tad confusing

04-04-2003, 08:54 PM	#30
Ornelírë Mistë Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Loved the Matrix. Favorite guy was Mouse, the little programmer guy. Lots of Christian parallels in the game Deus Ex. Brilliant game- I recommend getting it. Sequel is slotted for June.

04-05-2003, 10:31 AM	#38
congressmn Incharge: neighbourhood security Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on my 499th post Posts: 481	It is ALL ABOUT GOOD PROGRAMMING. tell me seomthing: there would be NO MATRIX if there wasnt AI, and AI was a result of good programming. sO IN conlusion and summary, good programming brings the end of a notable era of men. They had spread like a virus, and eventually their programming talents KILL THEM, well kinda any way, in a notable context at least. And talkin bout christianity and the oracle's predictions, they are all so wrong. NEO was the ONE. I think the watchowski brothers inadvertently put some christianity there if you know wht i mean. So it's all about GOOD PROGRAMMING ANd it ain not one bit funny. __________________ i am nothing. i am a cold stone, which deceives with the light it reflects, giving illusions of warmth.

04-05-2003, 12:29 PM	#39
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	yeah __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

04-05-2003, 12:58 PM	#40
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	yeah, it might be about good programming, but in the background it still has something to do with christianity, like some explained above. And another thing. ZION is actually a place from the bible. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

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