Of all the main "good" characters...who was your least favorite?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
So you don't like him because he reminds you of the nameless guy (no, I won't mention Elwe either -- oops! )? In what way? Must be the tallness, the silver hair, the political power and the racism. Er, never mind, I'm not sure what I'd be arguing about assuming I chose to. That won't do.

Anyway the quote might serve to show some people that the Lord of the Galadhrim was not a nobody.

Actualy, I would have to say it is the racism. His treatment of Gimli reminds me of what's his name and Beren I guess.

[galadriel]

OK, so maybe Celeborn isn't pond scum. Certainly he's wise. But his dwarf grudge still bothers me a bit, and, next to Galadriel, he's kind of dull. Thanks for the quote though. I must have missed that article! It makes a good point, that Galadriel's and Celeborn's wisdom are equal, but distinctively different.

What's that Elrond not being able to go because of the Last Alliance? I hadn't heard that before. I always figured that Elrond was needed more in Rivendell--the Quest already had Gandalf and Aragorn as guides, and Rivendell was an important haven to maintain. He could have left it to someone else, but I can't think of anyone else in the area quite as capable as Elrond.

[Sister Golden Hair]

How about Glorfindel?

[Ñólendil]

Maybe. He seems more like a captain and a great warrior than a political leader to me. I don't doubt Elrond would have sent him had Pippin and Merry been forbidden.

But the number to be sent out had to be small, and the number that was decided on was nine, because it fit (Nine Riders that are evil, you know). So they felt bound by that number. I don't see how Elrond could have gone. Only if Pippin and Merry could not, I think, but even then it would be wiser to send others and govern Imladris.

I think though, that if Elrond had gone, he would have left Erestor in charge, him being Elrond's chief counsellor. But Erestor by no means had the wisdom to match Elrond.

[Sister Golden Hair]

After giving this matter more thought, I have decided that maybe Elrond should have just stayed home. He was not an acomplished warrior, but maybe more of a diplomat. What were his battle qualifications in the field as far as the Last Alliance? But if he had been asked to join the Company, he could have gone instead of Legolas. The number would still have been nine, and he would have represented the Elves. But, would that have been acceptable since he was half-elven? So, again, maybe it is best that he stayed in Rivendell.

[Prince Faramir]

the nine riders against the 9 walkers i think was to create something stronger that morgul spells, although being a significant number the people were more important. for instance elrond or some other great figure, Glorfindel would have drawn more attention to the party when secrecy was paramount. the hobbits were included because of gandalfs great forsight. he knew they had a part to play not just on the field of battle but back in the shire. the 9 perfectly suited the task. i am confident that elrond had the strength and wisdom to be an unequaled warrior but what already has been said is true. he was needed to govern imladris and perhaps prepare for the time that the elves departed to the west.


interesting question though, how different would the quest have been with differing members.....

[Ñólendil]

Absolutely. If Faramir had gone to Rivendell instead of Boromir, if Glorfindel had gone instead of one the Hobbits. Think of Glorfindel and the Bridge of Khazad-dum if they would have reached it! Or maybe you shouldn't, Balrog discussions are dangerous.

Certainly if Pippin and Merry had not been allowed to come (which would probably mean that Gandalf would not have vouched for them, which would probably only happen if Gandalf was not present, which means something would have had to have happened for Gandalf not to be there at the time), two Elves would have replaced them. That was a long sentence. Glorfindel _must_ have been one of them, surely? He was sent (back) to Middle-earth evidently to aid Elrond, but being the mightiest (I imagine) of the inhabitants of that vale he would have been sent. It's a good thing Pippin and Merry came.

There was something more in it than foresight though, I think. It is even as Aragorn said to Legolas and Gimli in Riders of Rohan:

'The counsel of Gandalf was not founded on foreknowledge of safety, for himself or for others,' said Aragorn. 'There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark. ... '

[galadriel]

Yes, I think that Gandalf's decision had a lot to do with foresight. Many of his decisions did, for example the value he placed on Gollum. He knew without a doubt that Gollum would play an important part at the end. I think it was the same thing with the Nine Walkers.

I would have liked to see more of Glorfindel, and I certainly think he would have been a Walker if the hobbits hadn't gone. Faramir as a member of the Quest would be interesting as well, for many reasons. For one thing, isn't it possible that Frodo and Sam would meet *Boromir* in the woods on the way to Mordor? If, under these circumstances, the ring was revealed, the outcome could be very unpleasant.

[Kirinki54]

Was it really that certain that Glorfindel would have been sent, had Gandalf not persisted with Merry and Pippin?

"`There remain two to be found´, said Elrond. `These I will consider. Of my household I may find some that it seems good to me to send´"

It sounds to me in that case Elrond would search his mind and that would not have been needed, had he ever considered the mighty Glorfindel. (Was Glorfindel even technically of Elrond´s household, I perceive him more as a guesting elf-lord?) And Gandalf´s mention of Glorfindel was more like strengthening his own argument by using the ultimate comparison, than naming a serious option.

Well, that is one interpretation.

[Elvellon]

There is a problem with Elrond leaving Imladris; it was is ring that allowed him to hide it from Sauron, if he left Imladris would be revealed and all the elves and dunedain there would be at peril. Of course he cold have left his ring with Erestor, but Erestor didn’t had enough skill and power to use Elrond’s ring as effectively as Elrond, again putting Imladris at risk as a result. Golfindel? he was a much better choice as a companion that as ruler of Imladris, (a warrior that had faced a Balrog already…).

It is also possible that, since Elrond and Galadriel used elven rings, they were more open to the temptation of the One Ring.

[galadriel]

You have an excellent point there, Elvellon. Rivendell was an important Elven fortress, and to leave it without a ring would be pretty foolish.

As for the ring causing temptation being a cause: I'll agree that, psychologically, wearing one of the Elven rings might create temptation for the One Ring. Power corrupts and can create a lust for more power. But I don't think that the rings would cause their wearers to want the One Ring more than any other role of power would--Boromir, heir to the Steward of Gondor, seemed to manage quite well unaided by Elven rings. And the Rings themselves could not have any tempting effects on the wearers, since they were made by Celebrimbor alone and were inherently good.

But I suppose that you're thinking of Galadriel.

While Galadriel was tempted by the Ring, it was more of a personal battle. The power that the One Ring seemed to offer was something that she had always wanted (although her intentions were certainly better than those of the Ring's creator). The limited power that she had through Nenya probably accentuated this want, but I think this was just because of her individual case, not because of the Nenya itself.

So, in a nutshell, I don't think that wearing the Ring would make Elrond more tempted by the Ring.

[Sindarin_1]

Someone mentioned the relationship between Thranduil and Elrond. Where can I find information on that? Has anyone
found anything about how Celeborn and Thranduil are
related? I've heard the generic 'kinsman' but wondered
if there was more. Any guidance would be greatly
appreciated as I flounder through all of these writings.

as far as least liked character goes, if Boromir is counted
as a good guy, he'd be the first off my list. Boromir was
a bore.

[Ñólendil]

Welcome!

I don't remember reading anything about Thranduil being related to Celeborn or Elrond, but I guess it's possible. Thranduil's father Oropher was in origin a Sinda of Doriath, for what it's worth. In Doriath lived Elwe and his brother Elmo, Elmo's son Galadhon, Galadhon's children Celeborn and Galathil, and Galathil's daughter Nimloth (Elrond's grandmother). In this vague genealogy full of people we know virtually nothing about there is room for unnamed relations, but I've never read about Oropher fitting in there.

[IronParrot]

I think Elrond would probably have chosen his two sons. Yes, those ones.

[Sindarin_1]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Welcome!

I don't remember reading anything about Thranduil being related to Celeborn or Elrond, but I guess it's possible. Thranduil's father Oropher was in origin a Sinda of Doriath, for what it's worth. In Doriath lived Elwe and his brother Elmo, Elmo's son Galadhon, Galadhon's children Celeborn and Galathil, and Galathil's daughter Nimloth (Elrond's grandmother). In this vague genealogy full of people we know virtually nothing about there is room for unnamed relations, but I've never read about Oropher fitting in there.

Thanks for sharing that information. I initially found the information about Celeborn and Thranduil in a 'reference'
book called The New Tolkien Companion by J.E.A. Tyler,
published by St. Martins Press in 1979. Under the entry
for Thranduil it says: "A Lord of the Sindar and a kinsman of Celeborn of Lothlorien, and for at least two Ages of the World the Elven-king of Northern Mirkwood." It goes on for about a page and a half, but that's where I picked up the idea those two
were related somehow.

From what you say, this isn't verifiable, so I gather this is not the most reliable source of information for me to be using. Guess that explains why I'm having such a tough time tracking that down <G> I do appreciate your help in clarifying this.


Y'know, we can blame it on Sesame Street, but I'm having a hard time dealing with an Elf named Elmo....

[Ñólendil]

*chuckles* Yes, that's what I thought at first. Elmo! I don't doubt Tolkien would have changed the name had he forseen the popularity of the fuzzy, red Elmo on Sesame Street. I've used the name so much -- reading it, writing it and speaking it -- that I've gotten used to it now. It's not as bad as Teleporno ('Celeborn') by a long shot, though. Teleporno is actually a beautiful name in Telerin, but it has a different sound to native speakers of English, naturally. And there's not a lot of Teleri left in the world.

[IronParrot]

LOL!

Note to self: don't name kids that

[Elessar_elfstone]

Maybe my least favourite character doesn't seem right, but I kind of dislike Frodo in someway cos he is kind of pathetic and with Samwise only blindy devoted to him


Hey...umm pls don't feel insulted if what I said isn't pleasing

[samwise of the shire]

Frodo is kind of pathetic yes, but in the way Gollum was pathetic. I mean he had to carry this Ring that was doing it's work on him slow and easy, instead of quickly like it had on Boromir, so he had to suffer more and it made him hagard and tired,plus he was whipped, poisoned, betrayed, stabbed, and he had to have his finger bitten off to get rid of the Ring. But I would say that Sam was fully devoted, and not just Blindly.
Sam

[Bregalad]

I never liked Boromir. Even before his moment of darkness on the hill, I thought he was a self righteous hedge pig! I'm glad he came out of his funk in time to try to save Merry and Pippin and sort of redeem himself. But after he died I sure didn't miss him.