Some thoughts about our place in Earth's history

[Lief Erikson]

I don't think this has a lot to do with either pessimism or optimism. I agree with many of the criticisms of human evils and failures that people were expressing earlier in the thread. I simply didn't create the thread with the intention of dwelling more on the negative things humans do, but rather with the intention of discussing primarily the positive things about human life so that our appreciation of what we have around us will increase. There's a lot of discussion of the bad things humans do in other threads. For instance, we have a thread on Global Warming, a thread on Extinction Events, we've had many threads on world conflicts, etc., so I thought a view primarily focused on the positive aspects of humanity would help round our view.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Well, above, I have explained what my expectations and hopes were. If you don't believe me, you're free to believe what you just said.

It's not that I don't believe you when you said what you were hoping for this thread, it's just that your intention didn't get across clearly enough in your first post. But I think we've done enough explaining of intentions and reactions. I leave you to discuss the good points of humanity in peace. I'm going to go for something a little more practical, I'm going to cuddle my cat and then get to work.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

There's a lot of discussion of the bad things humans do in other threads. For instance, we have a thread on Global Warming, a thread on Extinction Events, we've had many threads on world conflicts, etc., so I thought a view primarily focused on the positive aspects of humanity would help round our view.

We also have the Happy Thread, the Photography thread which is always inspiring, and the Teacup.

[Nerdanel]

ok, cool things humans do:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...cal-heart.html

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Nerdanel

ok, cool things humans do:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...cal-heart.html

Wow, that's amazing!

[Insidious Rex]

Lief why the need to make it a competition between humans and animals as if one has to be better than the other? For me its all animal. And we are all on the same team no matter how distinct we appear from our own biased perspective...

Now as far as our species I think we are incredibly untested to be hooting about how much better we are than any other ever to evolve on the earth. We are the newcomers, lucky if weve been a true species for more than one million years. And perhaps much less than that. And theres a good chance we could snuff ourselves out (at least on this planet) in far less time then that. So to say this one unstable destructive species that is so far a flash in the pan over the course of geologic history and has spent its brief existence over using its resources and pushing millions of other species into oblivion is the greatest species the earth has ever known seems dubious if not completely illogical to me. Its not going to be our art or our architecture that defines our legacy. It will be the capacity of our ability to change our environment so massively. For better or worse...

Are we highly adaptable? Of course. But that has simply allowed us to infest our planet in every nook and cranny in enormous numbers well beyond the delicate balances of its natural environments. And please note when I speak of humans in this way I am speaking of them IN THE COLLECTIVE and not as individuals. Sure Mother Theresa did some great stuff. Ghandi was a great man. But overall, humans as a species act in general just like the animals they are. Big brains or not. All these big brains have done is allow us to come up with bigger ways to impact our environment. Like giving a 3 year old an uzi.

Now, when I think highly successful I think its clear that there are other candidates that seem to have a more firm grip on that title for now. Things like algae, bacteria, and micro-organisms that have dominated this planet for over a billion years essentially unchanged and upon whom all other life forms existence depends because invariably they are either the bottom of the food chain or are the life forms responsible for reducing all organic matter down into its component parts that more complex life forms need to live and grow. So before you take the title away from them Lief you may want to give humans a few more hundred million years just to make sure we are as nifty in the long run as you think we are... Dont want to end up with egg on your face when our species vanishes in flames in the next 10 or 20 centuries only to have any record of our existence completely erased by the most basic of life forms who will consume everything of ours accept for perhaps the most virulent nuclear waste and even that will be mixed into oblivion by the relentless escalator of plate tectonics. And in the end the cooling expanding sun will burn whats left of earth like a cigarette ash and then our only hope at survival will be our unrelenting instinct to seek out new frontiers and infest them as we have on earth. Although rest assured if and when we make that leap in our evolution we will be accompanied by the same bacteria, plants and animal species that made earth the green paradise it was for homo sapiens when we first emerged as a species. For our fate is intertwined with theirs. We cant survive without them.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

EDIT: waxed rather theological.

[GrayMouser]

Well, in the spirit, and as a humanist (secular variety):

"O, wonder!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in't! "

A few of the achievements of humanity I've seen myself:

Yorkminster, St Paul's Cathedral, Westminster Abbey, Stonehenge, Elgin marbles, Notre Dame, Mona lisa, Venus de Milo, Eiffel Tower, Winged Victory St. Peter's, David, Venice (all of it), the Parthenon, Pyramids, Great Sphinx, Hagia Sophia, Seville cathedral, Gaudi cathedral in Barcelona, Alhambra, Prado, Taj Mahal (by moonlght, with a beloved- the best way!), Ajanta caves, Borodopur, Pagan (Burma), Great Buddha, Forbidden City, gardens of Suzhou....

As a humanist, I agree- we are more important- to ourselves, of course, not the Universe as a whole, but that's the only standard we can measure by. We have to live by values, but those values are created by us.You are right, Lief, when you note that other creatures don't know or care about extinction; it is only our human pojections that make us concerned.

Yes, without us, there is no beauty in a butterfly, no majesty in a redwood, no glory in a lion; our hearts soar with the eagle, but she's just going to work.

It'a matter of perspective. The stars while splendid, are far away; faces are close.

On the cosmic scale?

Best leave it to Willy S.

"And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep."

[GrayMouser]

"The optimist looks at this glass of beer and says it's half-full.
The pessimist looks at this glass of beer and says it's half-empty.
I look at this glass of beer and say it's half-way to another."