Confrontation on Orodruin - 3441 Second Age - Page 2

CAB · 03-24-2006, 01:50 PM

Maybe Sauron went to Orodruin to use the power of the volcano itself against the allies. He had some control over Orodruin but perhaps he had to be on site to get enough from it to use physically against an army, the ring was stronger near the volcano. As for him being there alone, since he was under siege it probably would be easiest for Sauron to get to the mountain by stealth and also his forces, if present, would probably have been just as devastated by the fire as the allies. Sauron himself could probably withstand the fire (as he withstood the lightning in Numenor) or planned on sneaking back to Barad-dur before the fireworks started. He must have been desperate after being under siege for so long and was willing to take some chances.

**Nurvingiel** · 04-02-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old toby's wicked weed

is it being symbolism Mr Valandil??

It is symbolic, but Tolkien's symbolism tends to make logical sense as well.

Gordis and Valandil, that theory was awesome!

Once, Sauron did not serve Melkor. Maybe he was unhappy with their arrangement and destroying the Ring would free him a bit. Then he could say the Elves did it, and Melkor would be none the wiser. But then those pesky Elves stopped him.

What were the leaders doing 30 miles away from their army, I'd like to know.

Gordis · 04-03-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Gordis and Valandil, that theory was awesome!

Once, Sauron did not serve Melkor. Maybe he was unhappy with their arrangement and destroying the Ring would free him a bit. Then he could say the Elves did it, and Melkor would be none the wiser. But then those pesky Elves stopped him.

Nay, it is Val's theory, not mine. I don't think Sau wanted to destroy the ring.

I agree with CAB above, unless Sauron was simply trying to escape through Cirith Duath/Ungol.

And Nurv, what has Morgoth to do with Sauron's Ring?

**Nurvingiel** · 04-03-2006, 08:03 PM

Because since Sauron was a servant of Morgoth, Morgoth would benefit from Sauron's power, and from Sauron's destructive activities in Middle-earth.

Right?

durinsbane2244 · 04-04-2006, 08:09 PM

sorry i'm late, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olmer

In my POW, maia, the incarnated powers of the nature don't have feeling.They act according reasons which is alien and difficult to understand by humans.

BUT [dramatic music] didn't both sauron AND melkor slowly become more and more like mortals? they both lost their ability to change their form, and Sauron ended up depending on a little ring! so, at this point, sauron's thought pattern and feelings might be a little more human than back in the ol' days of Illuvatar's Lonely Heart's Club Band...

Lefty Scaevola · 04-05-2006, 10:08 AM

Its and easy situation to surmise from a military standpoint.
There was a 7 year siege of Barad Dur. Oroduin was a nautural place for the HQ of the besieging forces because of it vantage point and defensive power, both against Barad Dur, and attacked from the South. Although there is no account of the siege of the siege other than a few snippets like Anarion being killed by a cast stone and the last part of the final confrontation on Mt Doom, we can make some obvious assumptions. Much of sauron power was in subject nations and alliances in the Eaxt and South. We can assume that through the siege, the army of the last alliance had to deal with Sauron's forces arriving from these areas and attempting to relieve the siege. The will require the The last Alliance to spread out, and periodically deal with the larger of the relieving forces. A standard tactic for besieged forces is to make a sortie in when the seiger are busy fighteing a relieving force. (All this sound familiar like the siege and relief of Minas Tirith?)
A likely senario is the siege lines we thined to deal with a substantial attack from a relieving army, and Sauron, perhaps running short of supplies, made a last main effort in a sortie, which broke through the siege lines, and then engage meager reserves of The Last Alliance around its HQ on Mt Doom.

brownjenkins · 04-05-2006, 10:30 AM

I agree with Lefty.

It may have been intended to be something like Dagor Bragollach, when Morgorth broke the Siege of Angband. A massive counterstrike by Sauron to defeat the besiegers. A strike that drove them all the way back to Orodruin and may even have been successful if not for Isildur. Mt. Doom would have been a tactically sound place to gather after a route and mount a counterattack, due to it being the only natural high ground in the region.

I do like Val's idea of Sauron destroying the ring himself. Maybe he even felt that being present at the time of it's destruction might allow him to recapture the essence of his soul that he imparted into it in the first place.

CAB · 04-05-2006, 04:29 PM

I think Lefty makes some very good points here. However I think the danger presented by Orodruin would have offset any tactical advantages. Having a large number of people positioned near or on an active volcano for a long period of time probably isn’t a very good idea, especially if you know or suspect that your enemy has some control of it. In the Silmarillion it states that the Numenoreans knew of Sauron’s return to Mordor when they saw the smoke of Orodruin. They must have believed he had some influence over it. They probably would also remember how the Dagor Bragollach began, a siege broken with the aid of volcanos.

04-05-2006, 10:08 AM	#26
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Its and easy situation to surmise from a military standpoint. There was a 7 year siege of Barad Dur. Oroduin was a nautural place for the HQ of the besieging forces because of it vantage point and defensive power, both against Barad Dur, and attacked from the South. Although there is no account of the siege of the siege other than a few snippets like Anarion being killed by a cast stone and the last part of the final confrontation on Mt Doom, we can make some obvious assumptions. Much of sauron power was in subject nations and alliances in the Eaxt and South. We can assume that through the siege, the army of the last alliance had to deal with Sauron's forces arriving from these areas and attempting to relieve the siege. The will require the The last Alliance to spread out, and periodically deal with the larger of the relieving forces. A standard tactic for besieged forces is to make a sortie in when the seiger are busy fighteing a relieving force. (All this sound familiar like the siege and relief of Minas Tirith?) A likely senario is the siege lines we thined to deal with a substantial attack from a relieving army, and Sauron, perhaps running short of supplies, made a last main effort in a sortie, which broke through the siege lines, and then engage meager reserves of The Last Alliance around its HQ on Mt Doom. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

04-05-2006, 10:30 AM	#27
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	I agree with Lefty. It may have been intended to be something like Dagor Bragollach, when Morgorth broke the Siege of Angband. A massive counterstrike by Sauron to defeat the besiegers. A strike that drove them all the way back to Orodruin and may even have been successful if not for Isildur. Mt. Doom would have been a tactically sound place to gather after a route and mount a counterattack, due to it being the only natural high ground in the region. I do like Val's idea of Sauron destroying the ring himself. Maybe he even felt that being present at the time of it's destruction might allow him to recapture the essence of his soul that he imparted into it in the first place. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

03-24-2006, 01:50 PM	#21
CAB Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 306	Maybe Sauron went to Orodruin to use the power of the volcano itself against the allies. He had some control over Orodruin but perhaps he had to be on site to get enough from it to use physically against an army, the ring was stronger near the volcano. As for him being there alone, since he was under siege it probably would be easiest for Sauron to get to the mountain by stealth and also his forces, if present, would probably have been just as devastated by the fire as the allies. Sauron himself could probably withstand the fire (as he withstood the lightning in Numenor) or planned on sneaking back to Barad-dur before the fireworks started. He must have been desperate after being under siege for so long and was willing to take some chances.

04-05-2006, 04:29 PM	#28
CAB Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 306	I think Lefty makes some very good points here. However I think the danger presented by Orodruin would have offset any tactical advantages. Having a large number of people positioned near or on an active volcano for a long period of time probably isn’t a very good idea, especially if you know or suspect that your enemy has some control of it. In the Silmarillion it states that the Numenoreans knew of Sauron’s return to Mordor when they saw the smoke of Orodruin. They must have believed he had some influence over it. They probably would also remember how the Dagor Bragollach began, a siege broken with the aid of volcanos.