Favorite Chapters of The Sil

[Earniel]

Heehee, I can already imagine people writing to the Tolkien estate: "Whatever you do, do NOT let go of the rights on the Silmarillion. I beg you, by all that is holy and for the sake of Middle-earth, Do NOT SELL THOSE RIGHTS!"

[Sister Golden Hair]

There's that tech problem again. Had to post to see page 2 and Earniel's post.

[Jonathan]

It's hard to pick a chapter as my favourite but I think Of Túrin Turambar is one of the best. Túrin's story might be the saddest and most tragic thing that Tolkien wrote and is indeed an intriguing read. Túrin achieved some great things but still his life turned out to be nothing but a tragedy.

[littleadanel]

Yes, indeed the most tragic part. It was literally painful for me to read it, from the very beginning I was sure that it can't, simply can't end well... And when I read the story of Tuor, that for a moment he sees Túrin, the Blacksword, his cousin - it's only described in one sentence (as far as I can remember ) but the pain hit back, cuz I knew the tragedy behind it.

[Durin1]

The additional stuff in Unfinished Tales re Turin is excellent too. I particularly like the sensitivities that he shows as a young, meloncholy boy...

[katya]

Definately. I`m surprised I haven`t read all the Turin stuff at once in chronological order yet. Makes for a good story.

[Lotesse]

I've never been able to read through the entire Sil, but now that I'm growing more and more into my 2 RPGs being a female Nazgul, I'm compelled to educate myself more about all the history and I've been reading the Akallabeth chapter. Great stuff!

[Tree Dweller]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I've never been able to read through the entire Sil, but now that I'm growing more and more into my 2 RPGs being a female Nazgul, I'm compelled to educate myself more about all the history and I've been reading the Akallabeth chapter. Great stuff!

LOL, the first time through, it felt like an eternity. The second time I started reading it, I only made it about a third of the way.


My favorite part of the book would have to be the begining, the "creation story". (though that might change if I actually finish reading it a second time)

[Maedhros]

From Here and There:

All were silent. Then Túrin spoke again. "Do you take me to be your captain? Then I will lead you first away into the wild far from the homes of Men. There we may find better fortune or not; but at the least we shall earn less hatred of our own kind. I will now declare to you my true name: I am Túrin son Húrin; and I claim to be by right the lord and judge of the People of Hador. Thus I have slained Forweg justly, since he was a man of Dor-lómin." Then Algund, the old outlaw who had fled down Sirion from the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, said: "Your eyes have long reminded me of another whom I could not recall, and now I knew you for the son of Húrin. But he was a smaller man, small for his kin, though filled with fire; and his hair gold-red. You are dark, and tall. I see your mother in you, now that I look closer; she was of Bëor's people. What fate was hers, I wonder." "I do not know," said Túrin. "No word comes out of the North."
Then all those that were of the People of Hador gathered to him, and took him as their captain; and the others with less good will agreed. And at once he led them away out of that country.

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by Maedhros

From Here and There:

Why do you call it that, Maedhros?

[Maedhros]

Why do you call it that, Maedhros?

Because my dear Maerbenn, it is not really a direct quote from a book. It's kind of bits and pieces from Here and There.

Unlike this:
From La Cabaña de Los Juegos Perdidos

“Estos también eran los primeros niños: los niños de los padres de los padres de los Hombres que aquÃ* vinieron; y por lástima los Elfos intentaron guiar a todos los que venÃ*an por esa senda hasta la cabaña y el jardÃ*n, temiendo que los extraviados llegaran a Kôr y se enamoraran de la gloria de Valinor; porque entonces se quedarÃ*an allÃ* para siempre y los padres se hundirÃ*an en un profundo dolor o errarÃ*an siempre en vano convirtiéndose en desarraigados y salvajes entre los hijos de los Hombres. Más aún, a algunos que llegaban al borde de los acantilados de Eldamar y allÃ* se demoraban deslumbrados por las bellas caracolas y los peces de múltiples colores, los estanques azules y la espuma de plata, los conducÃ*an a la cabaña seduciéndolos gentilmente con el perfume de las flores. Sin embargo, aun asÃ* habÃ*a algunos que oÃ*an en aquella playa las dulces flautas de los Solosimpi a lo lejos, y que no jugaban con los otros niños, sino que asomados a las ventanas más altas miraban esforzándose por tener atisbos del mar y las costas mágicas más allá de las sombras de los árboles.

“Ahora bien, en su mayorÃ*a, los niños no entraban con frecuencia en la casa, sino que bailaban y jugaban en el jardÃ*n, recogiendo flores y persiguiendo a las abejas doradas y a las mariposas de alas de encaje puestas allÃ* por los Elfos para su alegrÃ*a. Y muchos niños se hicieron allÃ* camaradas, que después se encontraron y se amaron en las tierras de los Hombres, pero de tales cosas quizá los Hombres sepan más de lo que yo pueda decirte.

[Elemmírë]

Does 'Here and There' mean pieced together and recreated from the text and notes of the Narn i Hîn Húrin?

Cottage of Lost Play...

BoLT is so screwed up.

[Maedhros]

Does 'Here and There' mean pieced together and recreated from the text and notes of the Narn i Hîn Húrin?

Yes it does, in this case.

Cottage of Lost Play...

I'm impressed.

But how about this:
From Here and There:

And so came in the end to pass the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath. For the sons of Fëanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath and destroyed them. Though some of their folk stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (for such was the sorrow and confusion of the hearts of Elvenesse in those days), yet Maedhros and Maglor won the day. Alone they now remained of the sons of Fëanor, for in that battle Amrod was slain; but the folk of Sirion perished or fled away, or departed of need to join the people of Maedhros. Egalmoth was the lord of the house of the Heavenly Arch, and got even out of the burning of Gondolin, and dwelt after at the mouth of Sirion, but was slain in that dire battle. Maedhros now claimed the lordship of all the Elves of the Hither Lands and yet he gained not the Silmaril, for Elwing seeing that all was lost and her children Elros and Elrond taken captive, eluded the host of Maedhros, and with the NauglamÃ*r upon her breast she cast herself into the sea, and perished as folk thought. Too late the ships of CÃ*rdan and Gil-galad the King came hasting to the aid of the Elves of Sirion; and Elwing was gone, and her sons. Then such few of that people as did not perish in the assault joined themselves to Gil-galad and Galdor that valiant Noldor who led the men of the Tree in many a charge and yet won out of Gondolin and even the onslaught upon the dwellers at Sirion's mouth went with CÃ*rdan to Balar; and they told that Elros and Elrond were taken captive, but Elwing with the Silmaril upon her breast had cast herself into the sea.

From the ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH

- ¡No, dÃ*melo tú! -dijo Finrod. -Pues si no lo sabéis vosotros, ¿cómo podemos saberlo nosotros? ¿Sabes que los Eldar dicen de los Hombres que no miran a las cosas por sÃ* mismas; que si estudian algo, es para descubrir algo más; que si la aman es sólo (parece) porque les recuerda a algo más precioso? Entonces, ¿con qué comparan? ¿Dónde están esas otras cosas? Nosotros, tanto Elfos como Hombres, estamos en Arda y somos de Arda, y el conocimiento que los Hombres tienen procede de Arda (o asÃ* parece). ¿De dónde entonces viene esa memoria que tenéis antes incluso de que empecéis a aprender?
No es de otras regiones en Arda por las que halláis viajado. Porque si tú y yo fuéramos juntos a vuestro antiguo hogar, lejos al Este, reconocerÃ*a las cosas de allÃ* como parte de mi hogar, mientras que verÃ*a en tus ojos el mismo asombro y comparación que veo en los Hombres de Beleriand que han nacido aquÃ*.

[Elemmírë]

So much more fun than studying for Japanese.

Originally Posted by Maedhros

And so came in the end to pass the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath. For the sons of Fëanor came down upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath and destroyed them. Though some of their folk stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (for such was the sorrow and confusion of the hearts of Elvenesse in those days), yet Maedhros and Maglor won the day. Alone they now remained of the sons of Fëanor, for in that battle Amrod was slain; but the folk of Sirion perished or fled away, or departed of need to join the people of Maedhros. Egalmoth was the lord of the house of the Heavenly Arch, and got even out of the burning of Gondolin, and dwelt after at the mouth of Sirion, but was slain in that dire battle. Maedhros now claimed the lordship of all the Elves of the Hither Lands and yet he gained not the Silmaril, for Elwing seeing that all was lost and her children Elros and Elrond taken captive, eluded the host of Maedhros, and with the NauglamÃ*r upon her breast she cast herself into the sea, and perished as folk thought. Too late the ships of CÃ*rdan and Gil-galad the King came hasting to the aid of the Elves of Sirion; and Elwing was gone, and her sons. Then such few of that people as did not perish in the assault joined themselves to Gil-galad and Galdor that valiant Noldor who led the men of the Tree in many a charge and yet won out of Gondolin and even the onslaught upon the dwellers at Sirion's mouth went with CÃ*rdan to Balar; and they told that Elros and Elrond were taken captive, but Elwing with the Silmaril upon her breast had cast herself into the sea.

Tough one indeed. Colour coding is the only way to have it make any sense at all.

HoME IV, the Quenta
Shibboleth says that the other twin is already dead
BoLTII
Straight from the Sil, word for word.
Miscellaneous, so to speak. Or at least I'm too lazy to hunt down such short sentences.

Originally Posted by Maedhros

- ¡No, dÃ*melo tú! -dijo Finrod. -Pues si no lo sabéis vosotros, ¿cómo podemos saberlo nosotros? ¿Sabes que los Eldar dicen de los Hombres que no miran a las cosas por sÃ* mismas; que si estudian algo, es para descubrir algo más; que si la aman es sólo (parece) porque les recuerda a algo más precioso? Entonces, ¿con qué comparan? ¿Dónde están esas otras cosas? Nosotros, tanto Elfos como Hombres, estamos en Arda y somos de Arda, y el conocimiento que los Hombres tienen procede de Arda (o asÃ* parece). ¿De dónde entonces viene esa memoria que tenéis antes incluso de que empecéis a aprender?
No es de otras regiones en Arda por las que halláis viajado. Porque si tú y yo fuéramos juntos a vuestro antiguo hogar, lejos al Este, reconocerÃ*a las cosas de allÃ* como parte de mi hogar, mientras que verÃ*a en tus ojos el mismo asombro y comparación que veo en los Hombres de Beleriand que han nacido aquÃ*.

Ahhh, come now. I'm a Finrod fan. I love this quote in any language. The Atani look at everything around them in Arda and see something different and more precious; something that isn't of Arda.

...and thus is the History of Middle-earth spread across my dorm room. Wait till the roommate gets back.

[Maedhros]

Miscellaneous, so to speak. Or at least I'm too lazy to hunt down such short sentences.

Bravo.

Ahhh, come now. I'm a Finrod fan. I love this quote in any language. The Atani look at everything around them in Arda and see something different and more precious; something that isn't of Arda.

Your title gives that away.

From Here and There:

Of the wanderings of Húrin and his men there is no tale told, until they came at last late in the year to Nargothrond. It is said that he had then gathered to him other fugitives and masterless men in the wild, and came south with a following of a hundred or more. But why it was that he went to Nargothrond is uncertain, save that so his doom and the fate of the Jewels led him. Some have said that maybe he knew not that Glaurung was dead, and hoped in his heart distraught to take vengeance on this evil thing - for Morgoth would conceal the death of Glaurung, if he could, both because the loss was a grief to him and a hurt to his pride, and because (from Húrin especially) he would conceal all that was most valiant or successful of Túrin's deeds. Yet this can scarce be so, since the death of Glaurung was so bound up with the death of his children and revelation of their evil case; while the rumour of the assault of Glaurung upon Brethil went far and wide. Certainly Morgoth fenced men in Hithlum, as he was able, and little news came to them of events in other lands; but so soon as Húrin passed southward or met any wanderers in the wild he would hear tidings of the battle in the ravine of Taeglin. More likely is it that he was drawn thither to discover news of Túrin; to Doriath he would not yet come. And of old he had been an admirer of Felagund. They passed southwards down the ancient road that led to Nargothrond; and they saw far off to the eastward the lonely height of Amon Rûdh, and Húrin knew what had befallen there. At length they came to the banks of Narog, and ventured the passage of the wild river upon the fallen stones of the bridge, as Mablung of Doriath had ventured it before them; and they stood before the broken Doors of Felagund, Húrin leaning upon his staff.

Here it must be told that news of the fall of Nargothrond came to sons of Fëanor, and dismayed Maeðros, but did not all displease Celegorm and Curufin. But when the news of the dragon's fall was heard, then many wondered concerning its hoard and who was the master? Some Orc-lord, men thought. But after the departure of Glaurung Mîm the Petty-Dwarf had found his way to Nargothrond. Now Mîm had found the halls and treasure of Nargothrond unguarded; and he took possession of them, and sat there in joy fingering the gold and gems, and letting them run ever through his hands; and he bound them to himself with many spells. But none had come nigh till then to despoil him, for the terror of the drake lived longer than he, and none had ventured thither again for dread of the very spirit of Glaurung the worm.
Now therefore when those Men approached the dwarf stood before the doors of the cave that was once the abode of Orodreth, and he cried: ‘What will ye with me, O outlaws of the hills?’
But Húrin said: 'Who are you, that would hinder me from entering the house of Finrod Felagund?'
Then the Dwarf answered: 'I am Mîm; and before the proud ones came from over the Sea, Dwarves delved the halls of Nulukkhizdīn. I have but returned to take what is mine; for I am the last of my people. O Húrin, little did I think to see thee, a lord of Men, with such a rabble. Hearken now to the words of Mîm, and depart, touching not this gold no more than were it venomous fires. For has not Glaurung lain long years upon it, and the evil of the drakes of Morgoth is on it, and no good can it bring to Man or Elf, but I, only I, can ward it, Mîm the dwarf, and by many a dark spell have I bound it to myself.'
Then Húrin wavered, but his men were wroth at that, so that he bid them seize it all, and Mîm stood by and watched, and he broke forth into terrible and evil curses.
Thereat did Húrin smite him, saying: ‘We came but to take what was not thine - now for thy evil words we will take what is thine as well, even thy life. And not unknown is it to me by whom the Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin was betrayed.’

From Los Cuentos Inconclusos:

Entonces Ecthelion se volvió hacia Tuor, pero éste se envolvió en su capa y guardó silencio frente a él; y le pareció a Voronwë que una neblina cubrÃ*a a Tuor y que habÃ*a crecido en estatura, de modo que el extremo de la capucha sobrepasaba el yelmo del señor élfico, como si fuera la cresta gris de una ola marina que se precipita a tierra. Pero Ecthelion posó su brillante mirada sobre Tuor y al cabo de un silencio habló gravemente diciendo:— Has llegado hasta el Último Portal. Entérate pues que ningún extranjero que lo atraviese volverá a salir otra vez, salvo por la puerta de la muerte.
—¡No pronuncies augurios ominosos! Si el mensajero del Señor de las Aguas pasa por esa puerta, todos los que aquÃ* moran han de ir tras él. Señor de las Fuentes: ¡no estorbes al mensajero del Señor de las Aguas!

[Elemmírë]

From Here and There.... practically all of it is from The Wanderings of Húrin. I think the end of the first paragraph is from the Sil, though. As for the Mim part... a mix-mash of Sil and Turambar and the Foalókë.

As for the WotJ part of it... that one I can always place because the Maedhros comment always makes me very, very happy. I'm not just a Finrod fan. Not even close. I'm faithful to my obsessions, but have no problem whatsoever with polygamy. And the title's going... it's too biased.

And UT=love. Especially the Tuor part.

[Maedhros]

From Here and There:

Now each year about the time of the great wolf-hunt of Beren Thingol was wont to keep the memory of that day by a hunt in the woods, and it was a very mighty chase and thronged with very many folk, and nights of merriment and feasting were there in the forest. Now Naugladur knew, that the king would fare a-hunting at the next high moon but one. Now all that host assembled on the confines of the woods, and no word came yet unto the king.

Behold now Thingol the king rode forth a-hunting, and more glorious was his array than ever aforetime, and the helm of gold was above his flowing locks, and with gold were the trappings of his steed adorned; and the sunlight amid the trees fell upon his face, and it seemed to those that beheld it like to the glorious face of the sun at morning; for about his throat was clasped the NauglamÃ*r, the Necklace of the Dwarves.

There the dwarves surprised Thingol upon the hunt with but small company of arms for they contrived it that Thingol was lured outside or induced to go to war beyond his borders and there the king and his company were all encircled with armed foes. Long they fought bitterly among the trees, and the Naugrim - for such were their foes - had great scathe of them or ever they were slain. Yet in the end were they all fordone, and the king‘s thanes fell by his side - but Naugladur it was who swept off the head of Thingol after the NauglamÃ*r caught in the bushes and held the king, for so long as Thingol could fight he dared not so near to his bright sword.

From Las Aventuras de Tom Bombadil

El Palafrenero le dijo al gato ebrio:
“Los caballos blancos de la luna
Relinchan y tascan los frenos de plata;
Pero el amo ha perdido la cabeza,
¡Y el Sol saldrá pronto!�
AsÃ* que el gato tocó en el violÃ*n una jiga-jiga
Que hubiera despertado a los muertos,
Chillando, serruchando y apresurando la tonada,
Mientras el posadero sacudÃ*a al Hombre de la Luna:
“¡Son las tres pasadas!�, dijo.
Llevaron al Hombre rodando colina arriba
Y lo arrojaron de vuelta a la Luna,
Mientras sus caballos galopaban de espaldas
Y la vaca cabriolaba como un ciervo
Y la fuente se iba con la cuchara.
Más rápido el violÃ*n tocaba la jiga-jiga;
El perro comenzó a rugir,
La vaca y los caballos estaban patas arriba;
Los huéspedes saltaron de la cama
Y bailaron en el piso.
¡Con un pum y un pim estallaron las cuerdas del violÃ*n!
La vaca saltó por encima de la luna,
Y el perrito rió al ver tanta alegrÃ*a,
Y la fuente del sábado se escapó corriendo
Con la cuchara del domingo.

[Elemmírë]

Mostly from HoMe 2 and 4. I'm sure that everything I couldn't find is in those books somewhere, and can't continue to procrastinate starting a paper to look for them.

The Adventures of Tom Bombadil... now there's something I don't have.

So which books do you have in English and which in Spanish? Since I'm unable to find any of the History of Middle-earth series in Spanish (I just checked Amazon.com), I'm guessing that you live in a Spanish speaking country.

[Maedhros]

Mostly from HoMe 2 and 4. I'm sure that everything I couldn't find is in those books somewhere, and can't continue to procrastinate starting a paper to look for them.

Yes, most of it.

The Adventures of Tom Bombadil... now there's something I don't have.

The interesting thing is that the Poem that I posted, The Man in the Moon came down too soon, is in fact the song that Frodo sang in Bree.

So which books do you have in English and which in Spanish? Since I'm unable to find any of the History of Middle-earth series in Spanish (I just checked Amazon.com), I'm guessing that you live in a Spanish speaking country.

That would be my guess too. I have all of the HoME books in english, alas I do not have them all in spanish nor portuguese. On a side note, I have always believe that you should try to read the play of an author in it's native language. In JRRT's case, I think that there is a minor diference between the translation in spanish and the original in english. Yet, I think that the translation in spanish of the Cottage of Lost Play is more beautiful than it's english counterpart.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Maedhros

The interesting thing is that the Poem that I posted, The Man in the Moon came down too soon, is in fact the song that Frodo sang in Bree.

Hah, I was too tired to read further than the book's title. A mistake two-fold: I need to improve my Spanish; and I'd like to think I would have recognised it (even if I've lost most interest in the Third Age ).

Originally Posted by Maedhros

That would be my guess too.

I see.

Of course, you never know. I almost bought the Silmarillion in French this summer when I saw it in Québec. Though that would have been just one, not several.

Originally Posted by Maedhros

On a side note, I have always believe that you should try to read the play of an author in it's native language. In JRRT's case, I think that there is a minor diference between the translation in spanish and the original in english. Yet, I think that the translation in spanish of the Cottage of Lost Play is more beautiful than it's english counterpart.

Yes, I agree. I always now read in the original language... assuming I can, of course. I don't trust translations; I don't think the mood of a book ever comes across perfectly correctly. Can you explain what exactly the difference is in JRRT's books?