The last 3 to be made?

[Attalus]

The Nine and the Seven, as made, were not of differing sorts, though they may have had some slight differences in power. The change might have occurred when Sauron "corrupted" them. Sauron, who knows what he could have done? We do know that there was no difference between the effects of any of the Nine or the Seven in the reactions that they elicited from their victims.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Could Sauron have waited any longer to make the One Ring? Assuming that the Three were not the apex of Celebrimbor's skill (probably speculation either way), most likely any that were made afterwards would be even more powerful.

Interesting idea. If the Elves became too fast too skilled in Ring-making, Sauron would have had to react before the Elves smiths had completely mastered the art. Perhaps the Elves may have succeeded in making a ring that would not be subject to the One like all the rest if they had had the chance. Purely conjecture of course, but interesting to consider.

[Manveru]

As said before the 3 elvish rings made by celebrimbor were sorta like feanor making the silmails. they were the height of their skill thus far. after them if sauron hadnt made the one ring, i assume celebrimbor would have still tried to make better rings but it would be a long time before anyone made a better ring

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Manveru

As said before the 3 elvish rings made by celebrimbor were sorta like feanor making the silmails. they were the height of their skill thus far. after them if sauron hadnt made the one ring, i assume celebrimbor would have still tried to make better rings but it would be a long time before anyone made a better ring

It is quite possible, of course, but I disagree. Fëanor's creation of the Silmarils was the height of his creative ability. Fëanor says:

For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like.

Clearly, the Silmarils were not the height of Fëanor's skill "thus far", but simply the height of his skill, or so one could assume.

It is more difficult to say with Celebrimbor. Considering the situation under which the Rings were made, and how abruptly the making came to a halt, I would argue that (considering he was Fëanor's grandson) had he been given more time before Sauron put on the One Ring, he would have most likely created something more powerful. Mere speculation, of course.

Now, as to my last theory, I now have evidence! A miracle, no?

And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency.

This indicates to me that had Celebrimbor been given the time to create more powerful Rings, Sauron would not have had the power to control them.

[Manveru]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Clearly, the Silmarils were not the height of Fëanor's skill "thus far", but simply the height of his skill, or so one could assume.

actually i was talking about Celebrimbor there but w/e, Feanor definately couldnt have made anything better than the Silmarils, but perhaps somebody else could have (maybe Mahtan, the guy who was taught by Aule himself and who trained Feanor). but anyways thats getting off topic, im sure either Celebrimbor or another elf could have made some rings that were either better than the three, or at least as powerful had Sauron not done his thing

On a less controversial note: yay, my 100th post

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Pytt

I think they would have gone on, making rings. Feanor could never make comparsions to the Sils again, but as I see it, this don't work with Celebrimbor. the rings he made, even the three elven rings, can't be compared to the three sils in beauty nor perfection. I think he would have made more, but maybe after a time, he also would have been exasuted. but in the meantime, he would have gone on making rings. I don't think the three rings are the best that could be made. But for what purpose they should be made, I don't know.

I disagree. Look at Lorien before and after the One was destroyed. This was surely the effect of Galadriel's Ring.

[ItalianLegolas]

what was? the fact that the mallorns started growing again?

[Manveru]

i think he meant the fact that it was so beautiful. legolas says that he's always wanted to visit lothlorien because its beauty is renowned throughout middle-earth

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

what was? the fact that the mallorns started growing again?

The fact that Lorien was preserved the way it was. Look at how it was before the destrucion of the Ring and then afterwards.

[Durin1]

The whole point of making the 3 Rings in the first place was to slow down the effects of Time, and as a result, decay; which, for elves, is a cause for sadness.

Note Sam's comments about time seems to have stood still in Lorien, though Legolas puts a different perspective on it.

Also, in "Of the Rings of Power" we are told that Sauron seduces the Elves of Eregion by exploiting their common fear - of fading. He says to them that he understands that they never left after the end of the First Age because they loved Midde-earth. He states that they could still continue to enjoy the mortal lands, whilst also creating a version of Valinor (i.e. where there is no decay). This is pretty much what triggers them to make the rings.

[Pytt]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I disagree. Look at Lorien before and after the One was destroyed. This was surely the effect of Galadriel's Ring.

I'm not sure about what you are disagreeing to here TD. the way I can see it, Lorien has nothing to do with if Celebrimbor could have made more rings.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I was replying to the fact that someone said that Calelbrimbor could powerful Rings than the ones that were previously made and I was using Lorien before and after the diminshing of the three.

[Elemmírë]

I still don't know what your disagreeing with, TD.

Just because Lorien was preserved by Nenya does not mean that Celebrimbor could have made more rings later with more or different powers that were stronger, IMO.

Manveru - I'm pretty sure that Feanor got to a part where he surpassed Mahtan. My guess would also be that no Elvish smith in the 2nd Age was more skilled than Celebrimbor, Feanor's grandson. I agree with you, however, that the Three were probably not the height of his ability. And congratulations on your 100+ posts.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Okay. Sauron forged the One before the destruction of Numenor. In that time Celebrimbor made the three. Correct? If they were not the height of his power then why did he not forge more while Sauron was in Numenor that were the hieght of his skill?

[Elemmírë]

Well, maybe because Celebrimbor was dead.

TD, I just looked through that part of the Silm again, I must admit, my memory of it is not too clear...

It seems that Sauron made the One Ring before going to and corrupting Numenor. He killed Celebrimbor before going as well.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Oh!
So that's where my defence fails! But I still think that the Three were the height if his power.

[Pytt]

I did'nt remember that either, so I waited until someone looked it up. Don't have the Sil here... but then I see what you mean, TD

[Durin1]

Case of needing to brush up on your history

The best way to work out the chronology is to look in the Tale of Years in your copy of LoTR.

Roughly during the middle of the 2nd Age the elves began to create the Rings of Power. Shortly after Sauron made the One. The elves found out and hid the 3 Rings from him. This started the first War of Sauron and the Elves, which continued until the Numenorean navy came to the rescue of Gil-galad. Sauron was defeated and began to concentrate his power to the East for the next few hundred years; until Ar-Pharazon came to ME and humbled Sauron.

[Pytt]

I think so Durin1. and thanks for the tips

but TD. I think Celebrimbor were capable of making more, and more powerfull rings. as someone said, he was atleast Feanors grandson( or is that also wrong ) so I think he had more power, more of this magic it would take to make these rings. the three already made was great, but not thge greatest. I think

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

If Celebrimbor was capable of making more powerful Rings than the three he had already made then why did he not just flee Eregion and create more Rings that wouldn't be binded by the One? Instead he hid the three as if there sort would never again be made upon ME.