Bill Ferny: Man or Hobbit - Page 2

Attalus · 08-26-2004, 06:59 PM

The Nazgul, who were right there, would have made him give it right back.

Lefty Scaevola · 08-26-2004, 09:41 PM

Bill Ferny had one of the man type botanical names of Bree; He was later a member of the Chief's ruffians in the shire of which there is no suggestion of hobbits among them; He lived in a house, suitable enough for the southern orc looking man to hide in, in Bree, not a hole; 9as above noted) "Over the hedge a man (Ferny) was staring Boldly"; "swarthy" an adjective not know to be applied to hobbits;and Finally and nearly conclusively "you will wake the Chief's big man" who turn out to be Ferny.
QED

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 12:11 AM

So I think with all this evidence that clearly supports Bill Ferny being a man that I will agree that he in fact is a man.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 02:18 AM

Yeah we establisted that earlier but thanks anyway Lefty.

BeardofPants · 08-27-2004, 02:50 AM

Well, now to throw the spanner in the proverbial works. Hobbits are men.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 02:53 AM

What?

BeardofPants · 08-27-2004, 03:03 AM

Yep. Learn something new everyday, huh?

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 03:04 AM

yeah well they do have genders and therefore roughy 50% of Hobbits are men. And I guess from the quotes used to proove he is of the human race you could also take it that alls that it means is that he is male.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 03:08 AM

Yeah thats something that has always confused me, the difference in LotR between man and male. Eg. Could a male hobbit or elf, or dwarf etc killed the Witch-King or was it males that couldn't not just male men.

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 03:20 AM

Thats the whole tricky prophecy. THe prophecy doesnt mean any Hobbit could kill it only that Merry could kill it because he wasn t a man in one sense and Eowyn could kill it because she wasnt a man in another sense. I think the prophecy meant only those two could kill him but it just worded it in a really wierd way.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 03:26 AM

But if has BoP says hobbit male are men then Merry ouldn't have been able to help slay him.

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 03:28 AM

I think BoP meant that he was male. In one sense he could slay him cause he wasnt of the race of men.

BeardofPants · 08-27-2004, 03:34 AM

No. Hobbits are men, as in, of the race of men. Hobbits related to men... ring any bells?

Merry had a special blade that undid the spells cast over the nazgul... which is why eowyn was able to do as much damage as she did.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 03:34 AM

But then the two reasons contradict.
Merry- Wasn't a race of man but was male
Eowyn- Wasn't male but was the race of man.

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 03:38 AM

But thats jsut it T.D. thats the deal with prophecys. Usually they have double meanings and didnt the prophecy say no man will kill him not he cant be killed by a man. I thinkt thats the dfference.

And BoP where does it say Hobbits are reallted to men. In lotr tolkien says hobbit's origins are unknown.

BeardofPants · 08-27-2004, 03:41 AM

Check your prologue, guys, it's in there.

BeardofPants · 08-27-2004, 03:44 AM

Regarding the "prophecy"; the witchking was killed by Eowyn.... who states something to the effect that she is no man. Merry did NOT kill the witchking; he merely broke the spells, thus enabling eowyn to make the killing blow.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 03:46 AM

And it says somewhere about no mortal weapon being able to harm him, but that might be someone else.

Haradrim · 08-27-2004, 03:47 AM

Yeah that woudl fit along the lines of the prophecy the way I remember it

as the witchking shall not be kiled by any man instead of
HE cannot be killed by any man

I think everyone including the witch-king misinterpreted the prophecy

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-27-2004, 03:50 AM

Yeah that would make sense.

Like on the doors of Moria 'Speak friend and enter' is misinterpreted when it should be 'Say friend and enter.'

08-26-2004, 06:59 PM	#21
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	The Nazgul, who were right there, would have made him give it right back. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

08-26-2004, 09:41 PM	#22
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Bill Ferny had one of the man type botanical names of Bree; He was later a member of the Chief's ruffians in the shire of which there is no suggestion of hobbits among them; He lived in a house, suitable enough for the southern orc looking man to hide in, in Bree, not a hole; 9as above noted) "Over the hedge a man (Ferny) was staring Boldly"; "swarthy" an adjective not know to be applied to hobbits;and Finally and nearly conclusively "you will wake the Chief's big man" who turn out to be Ferny. QED Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 08-26-2004 at 09:43 PM.

08-27-2004, 12:11 AM	#23
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	So I think with all this evidence that clearly supports Bill Ferny being a man that I will agree that he in fact is a man. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 02:18 AM	#24
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yeah we establisted that earlier but thanks anyway Lefty. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-27-2004, 02:50 AM	#25
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Well, now to throw the spanner in the proverbial works. Hobbits are men. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-27-2004, 02:53 AM	#26
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	What? __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-27-2004, 03:03 AM	#27
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Yep. Learn something new everyday, huh? __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-27-2004, 03:04 AM	#28
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	yeah well they do have genders and therefore roughy 50% of Hobbits are men. And I guess from the quotes used to proove he is of the human race you could also take it that alls that it means is that he is male. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 03:08 AM	#29
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yeah thats something that has always confused me, the difference in LotR between man and male. Eg. Could a male hobbit or elf, or dwarf etc killed the Witch-King or was it males that couldn't not just male men. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-27-2004, 03:20 AM	#30
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Thats the whole tricky prophecy. THe prophecy doesnt mean any Hobbit could kill it only that Merry could kill it because he wasn t a man in one sense and Eowyn could kill it because she wasnt a man in another sense. I think the prophecy meant only those two could kill him but it just worded it in a really wierd way. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 03:26 AM	#31
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	But if has BoP says hobbit male are men then Merry ouldn't have been able to help slay him. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-27-2004, 03:28 AM	#32
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	I think BoP meant that he was male. In one sense he could slay him cause he wasnt of the race of men. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 03:34 AM	#33
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	No. Hobbits are men, as in, of the race of men. Hobbits related to men... ring any bells? Merry had a special blade that undid the spells cast over the nazgul... which is why eowyn was able to do as much damage as she did. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-27-2004, 03:38 AM	#35
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	But thats jsut it T.D. thats the deal with prophecys. Usually they have double meanings and didnt the prophecy say no man will kill him not he cant be killed by a man. I thinkt thats the dfference. And BoP where does it say Hobbits are reallted to men. In lotr tolkien says hobbit's origins are unknown. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 03:41 AM	#36
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Check your prologue, guys, it's in there. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-27-2004, 03:44 AM	#37
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Regarding the "prophecy"; the witchking was killed by Eowyn.... who states something to the effect that she is no man. Merry did NOT kill the witchking; he merely broke the spells, thus enabling eowyn to make the killing blow. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-27-2004, 03:46 AM	#38
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	And it says somewhere about no mortal weapon being able to harm him, but that might be someone else. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-27-2004, 03:47 AM	#39
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Yeah that woudl fit along the lines of the prophecy the way I remember it as the witchking shall not be kiled by any man instead of HE cannot be killed by any man I think everyone including the witch-king misinterpreted the prophecy __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-27-2004, 03:50 AM	#40
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yeah that would make sense. Like on the doors of Moria 'Speak friend and enter' is misinterpreted when it should be 'Say friend and enter.' __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

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