Introducing Children to Tolkien

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Valandil
Oh - one other little thing: Maybe I'm the only one here *looks around* who scooped up as many of the Burger King 'Lord of the Rings' figures when the first movie came out...??? (didn't get Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli or Elrond - but DID get Aragorn, Boromir, Pippin, Merry, Arwen, Galadriel, Saruman, a couple trolls, orcs and a Uruk hai) Anyway, the kids play with them... and one of them - one of the trolls - is a favorite bath toy. We always play, "Where's the troll?" when the tub is full of bubbles!

Ooh! I got them all... twice around (except for one, I can't remember which I only have one of) My first Gimli has worn his batteries down ("Well what are we waiting for?") I like Boromir best, he sounds so perfect. Do you have the ring that they all connect to?

I read the hobbit to my son, and am reading the first Harry Potter to him now, (I have never read HP, so I'm doing it for selfish reasons! ) but I have to really "work it", changing some language to make more sense, leaving out some overly detailed descriptions of stuff he has no clue about, and really hamming up the voices. He's almost eight ,and likes doing things more than imagining things. He views reading as a competitive sport...it's all about one upmanship.
This works fine in sports, but reading is not a race. The acelerated reading program has worked against him I'm afraid. He tries to read higher level books than he should, merely to "score" more points than the next kid. His reading level has suffered (IMO) because he's not comprehending the way he should. I just don't think he's ready yet, he's only in second grade. He enjoyed the Harry Potter when they lived with the Muggles, (because he could relate to it, Dudley beating on Harry was particullarly interesting) but all the wizard stuff can get boring pretty quick. Potions? Transfiguration? Whatever! It's a good way to get him to sleep quickly! Maybe he'll perk up when the Quidditch part kicks in...scoring, now that's something he can relate to!

[Elvengirl]

I read the Hobbit when I was 11, because my brother told me to. That was the perfect age for me to read it. Then bout a year or so later I read LOTR.
For me, once I learned how to read, I hated having someone read to me. I wanted to do it myself and I always got more enjoyment from it, so in that case reading Tolkien's books to me wouldn't have been a great idea.

If I were to introduce Tolkien to children I would go about telling them the story as apposed to reading the book to them. Like what Sween is doing. I think there's too much significance in the books to be read to a child. I'd say The Hobbit would be the better book to introduce first. As for age, of course it depends on the kid, but I don't think anybody is too young to appreciate a good, exciting, story, especially Tolkien.

And I would not let them see the movies first.

[-elfearz-]

mm..i read the hobbit at 5, and i enjoyed it and i dont wish i'd been older (although i really didnt understand the 'sun on the daisies' riddle )...
however, i attempted lotr at 6, and really wouldn't recommend it (although all children have their own levels..maybe it'd b fine for some ppl). in my case, i understood what was happening reasonably well - in broad terms - but many of the finer/deeper details, which make the book so brilliant (imo) were lost on me.

fortunately, i surrendered at the end of TTT, so i only ruined gandalf's return for myself..not the whole ending

(oh, read it again at 12 and loved it )

[The Gaffer]

Lizra, it's interesting what you say about competitiveness and reading level.

For me, the key thing in getting kids to read books is that they have to want to do it. Hence why I'm a huge fan of Pokemon cards and Harry Potter: both converted my boy from one who had no interest in reading into one who would disappear for hours with a brick-sized HP novel, and hardly touched the PlayStation for months. The reason was that he wanted to know what Pikachu's attack stats were, and he wanted to find out what it was like being a wizard.

Maybe competitiveness isn't all bad, if it gets them into it; the question would be how to convert it into genuine interest and how to assess what comprehension and reading level is really going on. I'm not sure how best to do this; how do you do it?

LOTR is interesting because lots of kids know the story and characters from the films before they read the books. I get a sense of how much my son has genuinely understood from reading by talking about how much the films deviate from the book, whether this person would really have done that, etc. (Faramir is a rich source of debate!)

I suppose HP would be similar, except that almost everyone reads them before seeing the films, and they are pretty much indistinguishable from one another * ducks *

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear how you, and others, would gauge this.

[Lizra]

I'm just going to wait. It will happen when he's receptive!

[Rían]

I read Hobbit out loud in the car during our summer vacation (we drove from California to Canada!) - the kids were 6, 7 and 12 at the time. The 2 youngest often fell asleep, but it's amazing how much they remembered, and they really enjoyed it and talk about Bilbo and co. still. Reading out loud is great! Also, the animated movie was really pretty faithful to the book, and they've enjoyed that, altho I hate how ugly the elves are!

My oldest son finished LOTR that same year and really liked it. He also loves the movies. I think I'll re-read Hobbit to them this summer vacation in the car (great time to read, if you're a person that can read in the car). I also did some "editing" and skipped some of the slower parts and changed some language to simpler language (tho not very much - I think it's good to stretch their language).

The 2 youngest also watch most of FOTR and some of TT - they aren't allowed to watch the intense battle scenes, but they saw the cave troll battle in FOTR once when I lost track of time and really like it, so I let them watch it now. I don't let them watch the last battle in FOTR, tho, or the yucky orc birthing stuff. I turn it off when Frodo leaves Aragorn, and I just fast-forward thru the gooey orc stuff.

[Rían]

oh yeah - Farmer Giles of Ham is really funny - they liked that one. Also, I'm just developing their love of good story in general - I read to them pretty much every night. E. Nesbit's "The Last of the Dragons" and "Fairy Stories" are great short stories, and right now we're working our way thru Andrew Lang's collection of fairy tales (the red fairy tale book, the blue, the green, the yellow, the violet, etc.) Not all of the stories are good, but many are, and they are absolutely spell-bound with the good ones - you should hear their protests when I stop in the middle of a long one! And when I look up and see their wide eyes and open mouths as I read, it's well worth the effort.

[gimli7410]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I read Hobbit out loud in the car during our summer vacation (we drove from California to Canada!)

j/w where abouts in canada did you go

[Rían]

Just a coupla days in BC - pretty darn long drive (but lots of time to read). Went to Buchart gardens - the quarry garden, way in the back where the fountain was, and the garden just kinda turned a corner and went off to somewhere mysterious, was right out of Tolkien, IMO ... really mysteriously lovely. Also went to the Butterfly museum - the kids loved that one (and so did I) I wish we could have stayed longer I had a roomie from Canada back in college, and she always talked about Buchart, so I've wanted to go for years.

[Nurvingiel]

I think Roverandom would be good for young children as well. I just got it and it looks like a lovely tale, though I haven't had the chance to read it yet.

[GrayMouser]

I read the Hobbit when I was twelve, and remember hiding it so none of my friends knew I was reading a book about Elves ad Dwarves...baby stuff- that was in 1966, before it became so famous.

I was thirteen when I read LOTR- you had to be 13 before you could get an adult library card; I received it with trembling hands- sort of a non-Jewish Bar Mitzvah- "today you are a man"

I'd say the Hobbit from about 8-11, LOTR 12-13.

I read (and loved) the Narnia books starting about eight or nine.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lizra
Ooh! I got them all... twice around (except for one, I can't remember which I only have one of) My first Gimli has worn his batteries down ("Well what are we waiting for?") I like Boromir best, he sounds so perfect. Do you have the ring that they all connect to?

I think we got the Ring... but I don't know what happened to that one. Most of the time, it was slim pickins around here, trying to get other than the same figures. I imagine they get mobbed in a big urban area like this by all the Tolkienophiles! The BK employees always seemed quite baffled by the average age of buyers for their kids meals at the time... with apparently no kids around!

*trying to imagine the scene at Lizra's household in December of 2001*

son: 'Aw MOM... Burger King Kid's Meals AGAIN!!???'
Liz: 'Yes dear, two for you, two for your sister, three for me and four for your father.'
daught: 'But we just had them for LUNCH!'
Liz: 'And make sure you give me all the figures!'

(EDIT: PS - is there any way I can pry some of those 'spares' off your hands??? )

[Lizra]

Ha! I do like Burger King...but not that much! I lucked out and picked up a big box of unopened figures from a BK employee who was having a garage sale. For $2.00! Heh! Muy bueno!

[Finrod Felagund]

My dad read me the Hobbit when i was eight and I think we startetr LotR when I was nine, but then I read them myself after he finished. When i was maybe 10 or 11.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Lizra
Ha! I do like Burger King...but not that much! I lucked out and picked up a big box of unopened figures from a BK employee who was having a garage sale. For $2.00! Heh! Muy bueno!

Wonder what value that would have on the open market? Or... like 60 years from now, someone finds the box and brings it to 'Antiques Road Show'...? Silly BK employee... he could have had your car, your house - and you'd have quite likely thrown in one of your offspring!

(Edit: and what was he doing - hoarding those treasures anyway? Did you feel like Bilbo and the Dwarves finding swords of Gondolin in a Troll's Lair?)

[Arien the Maia]

let's see...I was about 8 or so when my mom started reading The Hobbit to me. Then I read it by myself for years and then when I was about 17 I started LotR although it didn't really catch on till I was about 20, then I read the Silmarillion and was essentially hooked and it's now my favorite book!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

what was he doing - hoarding those treasures anyway? Did you feel like Bilbo and the Dwarves finding swords of Gondolin in a Troll's Lair?)
______________________________
Yess. We knows. Nassty BK employee got them from the Baggins. We hates him! We hates him forever! Poor Smeagol wants our precious figures back.! Is "garage" near Shire? Gollum, gollum!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Valandil
*trying to imagine the scene at Lizra's household in December of 2001*

son: 'Aw MOM... Burger King Kid's Meals AGAIN!!???'
Liz: 'Yes dear, two for you, two for your sister, three for me and four for your father.'
daught: 'But we just had them for LUNCH!'
Liz: 'And make sure you give me all the figures!'

*hee hee!*

I must admit I got into a stuffy purist mode and refused to get any - stupid me! Serves me right for being conceited! Now I can't play with them ...

[Rían]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Yess. We knows. Nassty BK employee got them from the Baggins. We hates him! We hates him forever! Poor Smeagol wants our precious figures back.! Is "garage" near Shire? Gollum, gollum!

Oh, you guys are just too funny!

[Maegondowen]

I first read 'The Hobbit' when I was around 6/7. I actually read it over and over again through Elementary School but I didn't read LotR until I was 17. That was 2 years ago and I actually have read LotR 5 or 6 times again. At first, it was quite difficult to understand it because I'm German but I lived in the USA at the point so I only read the book in English. That helped me a lot though since Tolkien's language is just wonderful...