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Old 09-21-2000, 03:49 AM   #21
Tar Elenion
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Re: Um, Mrsone...............

I don't disagree and was an avid MERP player for a long time(and added various elemnts from Rolemaster into the MERP system (I felt that the MERP system was 'cleaner' and used that as the base to add in RM elements).
I do not think that people should use info from ICE and present it as some sort of Fact when discussing JRRT's Middle-earth (and I think you are saying this as well).

Tar-Elenion
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Old 09-21-2000, 05:51 AM   #22
Saulotus
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Re: Um, Mrsone...............

I am saying that yes. Hopefully in a way that makes some sense to others.

ICE has several aspects about it that are truly intriquing.
Exposition on cultures with attendant lifestyles and practices are a nice example of this.

This speculative work adds a flavor to the areas that is not touched upon directly by Tolkien.

Speculation is the key here, much as say the Star Trek novel PROBE, or Shatner's ongoing saga concerning Kirk takes information and expands upon it and creates a story. Perhaps Shatner is another example of Canon. His work is not taken as canon, even WITH his standing in the Star Trek universe.

There is nothing wrong with ICE material, as long as it remains known it IS ICE material.

I'm trying not to be harsh here, but this is a fundamental truth.
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Old 09-22-2000, 05:38 PM   #23
Xivigg
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Re: Um, Mrsone...............

I carfully chose what to say and take every step so that you all know it was from ICE and not from Tolkien.

I only give the info i have stating were it come from.
Now you can take it or not.

By the way i'm looking for old ICE product now out of print especialy those who describe region.I already have lot of them but i want them all.If you have some and want to sell/trade them contact me.
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Old 09-22-2000, 11:27 PM   #24
Tar Elenion
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Re: Um, Mrsone...............

Your emphasis of it being an '*authorized* secondary work' simply leads me into making statements emphasizing the fact that it is something other people made up. It is not Tolkien.
However no offence or slight was intended towards you personally.

Tar-Elenion
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Old 02-14-2001, 11:57 AM   #25
easterlinge
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Re: Um, Mrsone...............

Azaghal was lord of Belegost in the First Age. Though I daresay he's just a descendent, not one of the Seven Fathers. But with any luck, like Durin whose heirs were mostly named Durin also, his ancestor may also be called Azaghal.

Where are the Mothers of the Dwarves anyhow? Did each Father take more than one wife?
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Old 02-15-2001, 12:37 AM   #26
Inoldonil
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Dwarven mothers

You mean the Seven Fathers' wives, or Dwarven mothers in general? Tolkien said in the Letters Aule created the first 13 Dwarves, and in a note ellaborates by saying he created the Seven Fathers and six of their wives (Durin was without a spouse). I'm wondering how in the world Durin ended up with descendents at all.
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Old 02-16-2001, 10:04 AM   #27
easterlinge
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Re: Dwarven mothers

Maybe Durin married one of the other Six Fathers' daughters. Durin did wander around for a long time before meeting other Dwarves, perhaps long enough for a daughter to grow up. Given that Dwarves, like Elves, don't seem too keen on procreation, it must have taken ages to get a sizeable population.

I wonder what the maximum population of Dwarves ever achieved in Middle Earth was? The Elven population probably reached max in the First Age, although Morgoth probably brought it crashing down again after the Nirnaeth.
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