homer/not homer simpson - Page 2

Falagar · 02-26-2004, 08:58 AM

Is it just me or is Hektor's death really tragic? And I have no longer any remorse for Achilleus...

***Earniel*** · 02-26-2004, 11:05 AM

Yeah, Hektor's death is pretty tragic. Homer went through great lenght (at least in my translation) to praise Hektor's courage, prowess with weapons and leader skills. The poor guy just happened to be on the wrong side of the war.

Falagar · 02-26-2004, 11:15 AM

Felt especially sorry for his father...haven't finished with the book yet, but so far at least three of his sons have died that I can remember.

GrayMouser · 02-28-2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
Felt especially sorry for his father...haven't finished with the book yet, but so far at least three of his sons have died that I can remember.

Well, he had fifty...

GrayMouser · 02-28-2004, 03:06 PM

My favorite character always used to be Odysseus, but re-reading it Hector has taken that place.

The scene where his son is frightened by his helmet; and there's Hector knowing that it's going to turn out badly; his son will be killed and his wife sold into slavery....but he's got to carry on anyway.

Falagar · 02-29-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Well, he had fifty...

Didn't know that...But Hektor was the greatest!

My favorite character has thus far (Book/Song 22 or 23 currently) been Aias/Ajax...

Beren3000 · 11-07-2004, 04:06 PM

This thread deserves a bump. In fact, I was planning to bump it when my "Faramir and Hector" thread was going on, but I forgot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falagar

Is it just me or is Hektor's death really tragic?

I agree with you there, Hector's death is very tragic, the most tragic part is when he begs Achilles not to throw his body to the dogs. There's this really moving sentence that Hector says in the selection in my literature book; when he realises his end has come he says: "The Gods call deathward..." how good is that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falagar

And I have no longer any remorse for Achilleus...

However, I disagree with this; most probably you've finished the book by now (unless you're a VERY slow reader

) and I think that your opinion of Achilles has perhaps changed? If it hasn't, let me change it for you: Achilles was a GOOD man, he just killed Hector and defiled his body in a fit of rage, but look how respectfully he treats Priam after. Btw, another moving part is when Praim tells Achilles "...I have brought myself to do what no one else has done before: I raised to my lips the hands that killed my son." (Or something like that

)

In fact, what I think is so great about The Iliad is that you can't really take sides with either the Greeks or the Trojans, each side had enough justification to do as it did. Or at least that's how I see it. What do you guys think?
Btw, since the movie is already out, what do you guys think of it now?
I loved it, but my English teacher hated it and was disgusted with Brad Pitt's being casted as Achilles. Thougths?

Last Child of Ungoliant · 01-09-2005, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I was mayorly disappointed that the Illiad stops right after Achilleus' death. Where was the famous bloody horse of Troy!? I was angry about that for a very long time and had to piece together what happened afterwards from several different sources. That was not so funny then, but now I find my ranting from back then rather hilarious.

on a slight correctional note, the Trojan Horse was an addition to the story of the Trojan war by much later Greek 'historians', and did not appear in either the war itself, or Homer's account titled the Illiad, which was written many hundreds of years after the war itself.

i love the oddysey

***Earniel*** · 01-10-2005, 05:53 PM

I had guessed it wasn't part of Homer's tale of the war but I didn't know it was added only so much later. I always viewed it as part of the body of Greek myths.

Manveru · 01-18-2005, 10:52 PM

havent read the iliad or the odyssey but i really want to
saw troy and thought it was awesome tho

***Rían*** · 08-06-2005, 11:45 PM

I finished the Iliad recently and liked it very much - lovely strong language and moving descriptions. I really liked Hektor, the tamer of horses *sob*

I got a little tired of all the descriptions of various gory deaths, tho.

***Rían*** · 08-13-2005, 11:09 PM

about 1/4 way thru the Odyssey and enjoying it so far ... I love the repetitive descriptive adjectives - very melodic, and you can see how it really works with it being an oral work.

Curubethion · 09-22-2005, 09:14 PM

Isn't Homer, like, Manny Ramirez's best friend?

Elanor · 09-24-2005, 11:23 PM

I read the Iliad and the Oddysey several years ago, just for fun. My favorite character was Odysseus, by far, and his family (Penelope and Telemachus). Athena's awesome too.

francod · 10-05-2005, 03:24 PM

hands down. He is one of the few people who acts out of love for others rather than himself.

Finrod Felagund · 10-24-2005, 05:20 AM

I have been wanting to read the Oddysey and Iliad for a long time...took them out of the library, but just never got arround to it. I will though...I promise...

rohirrim TR · 01-20-2006, 11:54 AM

just finished reading Iliad, and the Odyssey. I don't know if it was translation or what but Iliad was way better than the Odyssey.

Hector OWNS!

***Rían*** · 01-20-2006, 02:09 PM

ah, Hector .... *sigh*

The last sane person · 01-20-2006, 05:32 PM

I feel even worse for Hector's father. Had fifty sons and lost em ALL! I first read the Illiad when I was 10. I fell in love with that and read the Odessy right after. But really, I feel much more empathy for the Trojan side. The Greeks were a bunch of pompus asses really. Agamemnon, Achillies the lot of them. Perhaps old Nestor and cunning Odyseius (cant spell) were the only ones that kept their cool.

rohirrim TR · 01-20-2006, 06:13 PM

the trojan war is a lot like the civil war to me, really hard to villifie one side or the other they were equally glorious and equally brutal, the only real villain would be Paris I suppose Although Helen would get second prize in that contest as well. Poor Hector victim of circumstances.

02-26-2004, 08:58 AM	#21
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Is it just me or is Hektor's death really tragic? And I have no longer any remorse for Achilleus... __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

02-26-2004, 11:05 AM	#22
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Yeah, Hektor's death is pretty tragic. Homer went through great lenght (at least in my translation) to praise Hektor's courage, prowess with weapons and leader skills. The poor guy just happened to be on the wrong side of the war. __________________ We are not things.

02-26-2004, 11:15 AM	#23
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Felt especially sorry for his father...haven't finished with the book yet, but so far at least three of his sons have died that I can remember. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

02-28-2004, 03:06 PM	#25
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	My favorite character always used to be Odysseus, but re-reading it Hector has taken that place. The scene where his son is frightened by his helmet; and there's Hector knowing that it's going to turn out badly; his son will be killed and his wife sold into slavery....but he's got to carry on anyway. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

01-10-2005, 05:53 PM	#29
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I had guessed it wasn't part of Homer's tale of the war but I didn't know it was added only so much later. I always viewed it as part of the body of Greek myths. __________________ We are not things.

01-18-2005, 10:52 PM	#30
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	havent read the iliad or the odyssey but i really want to saw troy and thought it was awesome tho __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

08-06-2005, 11:45 PM	#31
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	I finished the Iliad recently and liked it very much - lovely strong language and moving descriptions. I really liked Hektor, the tamer of horses sob I got a little tired of all the descriptions of various gory deaths, tho. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

08-13-2005, 11:09 PM	#32
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	about 1/4 way thru the Odyssey and enjoying it so far ... I love the repetitive descriptive adjectives - very melodic, and you can see how it really works with it being an oral work. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

09-22-2005, 09:14 PM	#33
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	Isn't Homer, like, Manny Ramirez's best friend? __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

09-24-2005, 11:23 PM	#34
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	I read the Iliad and the Oddysey several years ago, just for fun. My favorite character was Odysseus, by far, and his family (Penelope and Telemachus). Athena's awesome too. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

10-05-2005, 03:24 PM	#35
francod Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on the goblin king's throne Posts: 62	hektor hands down. He is one of the few people who acts out of love for others rather than himself. __________________ Sauron is deadest guy in all of deadonia.

10-24-2005, 05:20 AM	#36
Finrod Felagund King of Nargothrond Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada! eh? Posts: 2,002	I have been wanting to read the Oddysey and Iliad for a long time...took them out of the library, but just never got arround to it. I will though...I promise... __________________ "THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!"

01-20-2006, 02:09 PM	#38
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	ah, Hector .... sigh __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

01-20-2006, 05:32 PM	#39
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	I feel even worse for Hector's father. Had fifty sons and lost em ALL! I first read the Illiad when I was 10. I fell in love with that and read the Odessy right after. But really, I feel much more empathy for the Trojan side. The Greeks were a bunch of pompus asses really. Agamemnon, Achillies the lot of them. Perhaps old Nestor and cunning Odyseius (cant spell) were the only ones that kept their cool. __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

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