The Emily Dickinson Fan Club - Page 2

**Nurvingiel** · 10-23-2004, 02:11 PM

I think your interpretation is excellent Beren.

I think the school and the fields could also symbolize something important in her life (not just be a scene). I agree with you that this poem is about her own death. That's why I don't think she needed to explain the symbolism of the school or the gain, because it was almost like a tribute to death, from her.

Any ideas what the symbolism might be, if that's in fact what it is?

Beren3000 · 10-23-2004, 03:15 PM

Right now, I could only think that kids symbolise innocence: the simplicity with which one must consider thoughts of life and death and immortality.
As to the symbolism of the fields, I don't know. They could possibly symbolise nature, for which she had a great passion. Or (an idea that I had earlier), fields recall sowing and reaping ==> "you reap what you sow" ==> Judgment Day

Now I know this one's farfetched

PippinTook · 10-23-2004, 06:44 PM

Ahhh, I adore Emily Dickinson. I read her everytime I can. Here's a website I go to alot, its got all her poems on it. http://www.bartleby.com/113/ very helpful.

These are my favorites,
SUCCESS is counted sweetest
By those who ne’er succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.

Not one of all the purple host 5
Who took the flag to-day
Can tell the definition,
So clear, of victory,

As he, defeated, dying,
On whose forbidden ear 10
The distant strains of triumph
Break, agonized and clear.

and,

Life is but life, and death but death!
Bliss is but bliss, and breath but breath!
And if, indeed, I fail,
At least to know the worst is sweet. 10
Defeat means nothing but defeat,
No drearier can prevail!

the one Nurv mentioned was great too.

Beren3000 · 10-24-2004, 10:35 AM

Hyia Pippin. Welcome to the club

About your first poem, I never understood line 10. Why would she call the defeated's ear "forbidden"? Any thoughts?

***Fat middle*** · 10-24-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Hyia Pippin. Welcome to the club

About your first poem, I never understood line 10. Why would she call the defeated's ear "forbidden"? Any thoughts?

Perhaps because the ear is the only organ of his that is getting into the "territory" of victory, forbidden for the defeated...

Beren3000 · 10-24-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat middle

Perhaps because the ear is the only organ of his that is getting into the "territory" of victory, forbidden for the defeated...

Hmmm...could be!

PippinTook · 10-24-2004, 02:54 PM

Yeah I agree with Fat Middle. That's a good explanation.

Beren3000 · 10-25-2004, 01:11 PM

Here's another tough poem I never understood:

Quote:

I know that he exists
Somewhere, in silence.
He has hid his rare life
From our gross eyes.

'Tis an instant's play,
'Tis a fond ambush,
Just to make bliss
Earn her own surprise!

But should the play
Prove piercing earnest,
Should the glee glaze
In death's stiff stare,

Would not the fun
Look too expensive?
Would not the jest
Have crawled too far?

Ideas, anyone?

katya · 10-25-2004, 09:40 PM

OK, I'm still on The Chariot. When we discussed the poem briefly in English 11 class, my teacher explained it like this: the speaker is talking about what happened when she died. In the first couple stanzas, death is presented as a gentleman, really. I suppose that kind of affects the mood of the poem. So she gets in the carriage with death, and immortality. It's pretty obvious that she believed in an imortal soul, because that really shapes her views on death throughout the poem.
"And I had put away my labour and my leisure too, for his civility." When death comes, as it eventually does, she accepts it gracefully, giving up whatever she was occupied with in life. ('cause Death is just such a sweetie. or something.)
As she rides into the afterlife with death, she sees the familiar things from her life. The setting sun seems to suggest to me the closing of her life, as of the day.
My teacher explained for the house worked, and how graves used to come out of the ground as described. I'm having trouble picturing it though. >.<
Then in the last stanza, we finally make it to eternity. And in the scope of eternity, hundreds of years feel like a day. More specifically, the day she realized about eternity.
Maybe that's a little simpistic and literal, but at the same time it makes sense to me.

I'm wondering whether or not there's a meaning that I'm missing and that my teacher didn't point out. I like Beren's interpretation though.^^

Beren3000 · 10-26-2004, 07:06 AM

Katya, I think your teacher's explanation is more well-structured and clearer but I'm still sticking by mine.

So what other ED poems did you discuss in class?

katya · 10-26-2004, 07:57 AM

The soul selects her own society, This is my letter to the world. (sorry if I got the titles wrong.) That's all, but we focused more on The Chariot. I missed class yesterday, so I don't know if we'll talk about her much more than that. There was this one poem I liked from freshman English but I can't remember what it was called. I think it was about a little birdy.^^
EDIT: in class today, I was thinking about the things she sees in The Chariot, and I thought...children playing, fields, and the setting sun to represent stages of life. Childhood, work (adulthood) death. Ok gotta go to class or I'm gonna get killed.

Beren3000 · 10-26-2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

This is my letter to the world.

We did that last year. I don't quite get it. How did your teacher interpret it?

katya · 10-26-2004, 03:24 PM

She didn't, really. She just pointed it out in the book. I'll tell you what I thought though: (and here's the poem: )

Quote:

This is my letter to the world,
That never wrote to me,
The simple news that Nature told,
With tender majesty.

Her message is committed
To hands I cannot see;
For love of her, sweet countrymen,
Judge tenderly of me!

The "letter to the world", maybe to represent her poetry? Since a lot of it is about nature, she is in a way spreading the messages she recieved in her soul from nature, and writing about it- telling it to the world.
I'm not sure about the "hands I cannot see", but maybe something along the lines of "I'm not sure who's going to read this 'letter' [since she didn't let people read her poems], but I commit it to your hands, whoever you are."
She tells us to judge her tenderly, because people love nature, and she is spreading the words of nature, so in loving her they are loving nature. Something like that- it's a little hard to paraphrase.
What do you think?
EDIT: Hey, weird timing there, but it's nice to see you're around!^^ I haven't really talked to you before, so I guess it's nice to meet you. I'm Katya, of course.

Beren3000 · 10-26-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

What do you think?

I was just going to say that I had my own interpretation when I saw your post. I completely agree, that's exactly how I thought it out.
However, the "hands I cannot see" part is where I disagree with you. Nature's message to Dickinson was sent TO DICKINSON (not to us) by hands she couldn't see, she's simply wondering at how one can understand Nature instinctively, see what I'm saying?

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

EDIT: Hey, weird timing there,

I know, lol!

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

but it's nice to see you're around!^^ I haven't really talked to you before, so I guess it's nice to meet you. I'm Katya, of course.

Nice to meet you too

I'm Joseph

katya · 10-26-2004, 03:41 PM

Oooh....your explanation makes just as much sense as mine. You know what that means: we'll have to hold a seance and ask the poet herself!
What I'm thinking is, she says "TO hands I cannot see," and since the message was to her, it would be her hands, rather than nature's.

Beren3000 · 10-27-2004, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

we'll have to hold a seance and ask the poet herself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily Dickinson

This is a message from beyond the grave, Beren's interpretation is correct!!

How about that ?

Seriously, though, I think that the "to" part can easily fit into my explanation. Nature's message to Dickinson is entrusted by nature TO HANDS DICKINSON CAN'T SEE so that these hands may deliver the message TO DICKINSON.

Another question. Ever noticed how the "bee" occurs in many of ED's poems? Why do you think that is?

katya · 10-27-2004, 03:24 PM

Oh, I get it now. Very funny by the way. I didn't know miss ED was a mooter.

I haven't noticed the "bee". Do you have some examples? I borrowed a book of selected poems from school, so they'll probably be in there somewhere. Maybe she saw a lot of bees in the garden (where she spent a lot of time) and thought they were important for some reason.

Beren3000 · 10-30-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

I haven't noticed the "bee". Do you have some examples?

Sorry this reply is late, but here are some (I'll refer you to the first line only, otherwise this post would be too long!):

"The pedigree of the honey"
"I taste a liquor never brewed," (line 9)
"Did the harebell loose her girdle"
"My friend must be a bird"
"It's all I have to bring today,"

And there are a lot more, I just gave you these as an example.

While you're at it, btw, may I recommend you read these 2 poems:

"I should have been too glad, I see,"
and "Before I got my eye put out,"
They have nothing to do with bees, but they're great. Enjoy your reading!

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

Maybe she saw a lot of bees in the garden (where she spent a lot of time) and thought they were important for some reason.

Could be...

Beren3000 · 11-08-2004, 01:50 PM

Dickinson fans, where are you?

sun-star · 11-08-2004, 02:29 PM

Dickinson was a recluse, so isn't it right that her fans should be a little reticent?

10-23-2004, 06:44 PM	#23
PippinTook The Infamous Tea Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY! Posts: 1,162	Ahhh, I adore Emily Dickinson. I read her everytime I can. Here's a website I go to alot, its got all her poems on it. http://www.bartleby.com/113/ very helpful. These are my favorites, SUCCESS is counted sweetest By those who ne’er succeed. To comprehend a nectar Requires sorest need. Not one of all the purple host 5 Who took the flag to-day Can tell the definition, So clear, of victory, As he, defeated, dying, On whose forbidden ear 10 The distant strains of triumph Break, agonized and clear. and, Life is but life, and death but death! Bliss is but bliss, and breath but breath! And if, indeed, I fail, At least to know the worst is sweet. 10 Defeat means nothing but defeat, No drearier can prevail! the one Nurv mentioned was great too. __________________ http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/shanakdakhete/svbf.gif If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND

10-24-2004, 02:54 PM	#27
PippinTook The Infamous Tea Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Riding my Attack Llama, CORY! Posts: 1,162	Yeah I agree with Fat Middle. That's a good explanation. __________________ http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/shanakdakhete/svbf.gif If I can stop one heart from aching, I shall not live in vain. -Emily Dickinson But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd Never can quite understand The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought By the touch of the Master's hand. Though she be but little, she is fierce! -MSND

10-26-2004, 07:57 AM	#31
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	The soul selects her own society, This is my letter to the world. (sorry if I got the titles wrong.) That's all, but we focused more on The Chariot. I missed class yesterday, so I don't know if we'll talk about her much more than that. There was this one poem I liked from freshman English but I can't remember what it was called. I think it was about a little birdy.^^ EDIT: in class today, I was thinking about the things she sees in The Chariot, and I thought...children playing, fields, and the setting sun to represent stages of life. Childhood, work (adulthood) death. Ok gotta go to class or I'm gonna get killed. Last edited by katya : 10-26-2004 at 03:24 PM.

11-08-2004, 02:29 PM	#40
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Dickinson was a recluse, so isn't it right that her fans should be a little reticent? __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

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10-23-2004, 03:15 PM	#22
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Right now, I could only think that kids symbolise innocence: the simplicity with which one must consider thoughts of life and death and immortality. As to the symbolism of the fields, I don't know. They could possibly symbolise nature, for which she had a great passion. Or (an idea that I had earlier), fields recall sowing and reaping ==> "you reap what you sow" ==> Judgment Day Now I know this one's farfetched

10-24-2004, 10:35 AM	#24
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Hyia Pippin. Welcome to the club About your first poem, I never understood line 10. Why would she call the defeated's ear "forbidden"? Any thoughts?

10-25-2004, 09:40 PM	#29
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	OK, I'm still on The Chariot. When we discussed the poem briefly in English 11 class, my teacher explained it like this: the speaker is talking about what happened when she died. In the first couple stanzas, death is presented as a gentleman, really. I suppose that kind of affects the mood of the poem. So she gets in the carriage with death, and immortality. It's pretty obvious that she believed in an imortal soul, because that really shapes her views on death throughout the poem. "And I had put away my labour and my leisure too, for his civility." When death comes, as it eventually does, she accepts it gracefully, giving up whatever she was occupied with in life. ('cause Death is just such a sweetie. or something.) As she rides into the afterlife with death, she sees the familiar things from her life. The setting sun seems to suggest to me the closing of her life, as of the day. My teacher explained for the house worked, and how graves used to come out of the ground as described. I'm having trouble picturing it though. >.< Then in the last stanza, we finally make it to eternity. And in the scope of eternity, hundreds of years feel like a day. More specifically, the day she realized about eternity. Maybe that's a little simpistic and literal, but at the same time it makes sense to me. I'm wondering whether or not there's a meaning that I'm missing and that my teacher didn't point out. I like Beren's interpretation though.^^

10-26-2004, 07:06 AM	#30
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Katya, I think your teacher's explanation is more well-structured and clearer but I'm still sticking by mine. So what other ED poems did you discuss in class?

10-26-2004, 03:41 PM	#35
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Oooh....your explanation makes just as much sense as mine. You know what that means: we'll have to hold a seance and ask the poet herself! What I'm thinking is, she says "TO hands I cannot see," and since the message was to her, it would be her hands, rather than nature's.

10-27-2004, 03:24 PM	#37
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Oh, I get it now. Very funny by the way. I didn't know miss ED was a mooter. I haven't noticed the "bee". Do you have some examples? I borrowed a book of selected poems from school, so they'll probably be in there somewhere. Maybe she saw a lot of bees in the garden (where she spent a lot of time) and thought they were important for some reason.

11-08-2004, 01:50 PM	#39
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Dickinson fans, where are you?