Stupid White Men

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Ummm... exactly what would merit closing this thread?

Ru, at issue is the use of the flag. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. On that we all agree. But when one group seizes the flag and waves it while vehemently stating their opinions, we have a problem.

This is an international forum. I strongly dislike the use of our flag by people who do not represent all of us. They give the false impression to the rest of the world that we all agree with their factionalized opinions. And I took my oath and did my term of service to defend that flag. I am really sick of seeing it used by bloodthirsty people.

That does not warrant locking any thread, in my opinion.

You are familiar with posting policies on this board I take it? When threads become loaded and the potential to flame is there, a decision may be made by mods and admins to close the thread if they deem it to be non-beneficial to the forum. All I am saying, is that the two parties in question in this thread, need to calm down, before I have to intervene.

You may not like JD's opinions, or agree with them, and even though you are a veteran of the armed services of the US, the flag and the symbolism is not your personal property. It is his right on or off of this messageboard to flag wave, or have the flag here as his avatar. Entmoot, is not a democracy.

[jerseydevil]

Oh - this will probably REALLY upset you - because I ALSO defend a person's right to BURN the flag. I am AGAINST any Constitutional amendment to protect the flag because I feel it goes AGAINST free speech.

[Elfhelm]

One can't seriously expect this book to be discussed dispassionately. Neither myself nor jerseydevil has violated the rules of this site. We have not sworn or threatened each other. We haven't even resorted to namecalling. We have merely been passionate. I did not ask an admin to change a user's icon. I do not ask interference.

Let me recap:

JD proposed killing the author, albeit humorously.
I said that is not in the spirit of demoracy so please don't use our flag when you post that sort of vitriol.
He said I can't really think he really meant to kill the guy.
I posted Jefferson talking about not killing people you disagree with.
He said he is familiar with Jefferson.
I repeated, then don't fly the flag while you spout un-democratic jokes.

So let's get back to that topic and not get diverted into discussions of what we are allowed to say.

p.s. two wrongs don't make a right, Ruinel. And I recall the admins telling you to tone it down.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
JD proposed killing the author, albeit humorously.
I said that is not in the spirit of demoracy so please don't use our flag when you post that sort of vitriol.
He said I can't really think he really meant to kill the guy.
I posted Jefferson talking about not killing people you disagree with.
He said he is familiar with Jefferson.
I repeated, then don't fly the flag while you spout un-democratic jokes.

For someone who claims to stand up for American values and freedom of speech - you show a strange way of showing it. Where do you get off telling me when I can and can not wave the flag?! Whether you found my comment offensive or not - has no bearing on me having the flag as my avatar. Maybe you are the one who needs to look in the mirror and think if you are really for TRUE freedom - or just your own version of it.

You seem to think you are superior because you are a veteran. Sorry - but in the United States of America - military personnel have no addtional rights or superiority over non-military personnel. If you want to throw your veteran status around like that then maybe a country run by a dictator would be more to your liking.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Neither myself nor jerseydevil has violated the rules of this site. We have not sworn or threatened each other. We haven't even resorted to namecalling. We have merely been passionate. I did not ask an admin to change a user's icon. I do not ask interference.

I never said that you broke the rules of this site. (Yet) I answered your question, which is in the rules about mod/admins closing threads. It is my job to make sure that the board runs smoothly. All I am saying is that this thread has the potential to become volatile. If you do not want answered, than don't pose the question. Also, arguing about moderator actions in open forum is prohibited. If you have a problem with anything I have said as a mod, you are free to contact me via PM.

[Elfhelm]

Please be assured I will not violate the rules. I am only replying in regard to the diversionary topic of thread locking because it was brought up.

jerseydevil, I don't think you are willing to read my words as intended, so I'll bow out. I don't have anything more to say anyway. I can only repeat myself in saying that killing people who you disagree with is wrong, it isn't funny to joke about it, and it isn't patriotic. I consider dissidents more patriotic than the draft-dodger on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. What else can I say? Not much, so have fun with your rebuttal.

The opinions that follow this are merely opinions. Not a single person has posted a factual dispute with the book. Furthermore, I never said the flag only belongs to me. I am trying to take the flag back from the hate-mongers who are using it to create the impression that only they are allowed to have a flag. My service record is put here only because these hate-mongers question the patriotism of us dissidents.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
jerseydevil, I don't think you are willing to read my words as intended, so I'll bow out.

You initially had a problem with me restricting Moore's freedom of speech. Then afterward - you were upset that I had the flag avatar - which actually is none of your business. So which words did I not understand?

I don't have anything more to say anyway. I can only repeat myself in saying that killing people who you disagree with is wrong, it isn't funny to joke about it, and it isn't patriotic.

See - that's YOUR opinion. It's the great thing about the US - you don't have to like my jokes and I don't have to like yours - but we still have a right to say them.

I consider dissidents more patriotic than the draft-dodger on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

You mean the draft dodger that was in the White House for 8 years in the last administation?

What else can I say?

Not much because you have proven that you only feel that freedom extends to the people who seem to agree with you. Or is that only those people are honored enough in your eyes to be considered Americans and hold the flag and fight for the freedoms this country stands for?

[Spock]

Gee, all this over a guy who distorts the truth, lies about facts and makes up incidents. It hardly seems worthly of the efforts made by such members as have done so here.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Spock
Gee, all this over a guy who distorts the truth, lies about facts and makes up incidents. It hardly seems worthly of the efforts made by such members as have done so here.

Well this argument evolved into my right to have my flag avatar - even if Elfhelm feels offended by it or my opinions. He forgets he has the option to turn off avatars if it offends him so much - because my avatar is my avatar whether he likes it or not. The American flag is just as much my flag as his.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
...p.s. two wrongs don't make a right, Ruinel. And I recall the admins telling you to tone it down.

what [EDITED] does that have to do with what I said?

Dude, you need to chill. I was only trying to end this futile argument between you and JD, which will get AE's thread closed if it continues. You seem have a problem with what I said, since you now have your panties in a twist about it. Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about it one way or the other, since obviously you are closed minded to what other's have to say.

Oh, yeah, about the flag thing... grow up.

Originally posted by Spock
Gee, .... It hardly seems worthly of the efforts made by such members as have done so here.

I'm with you, brother.



Last edited by Sister Golden Hair