Sexual assault among high school teammates

[Percy Weasley]

I do hope you are not becoming my nemesis, jerseydevil

To reply to your post, that depends completely on what you mean by "directly."

The campsites in question are no more than a quarter the size of a football field, contain approximately twenty tents, and while the adults are not allowed to stay in the same tent with a boy, they are in another one of the tents the entire night.

It is analogous with a boy in his bedroom at home - it is unfair to say his parents are not there simply because he is not sleeping in their bed.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
I do hope you are not becoming my nemesis, jerseydevil

It depends on what type of poster you consider your nemisis to be. I have been many a mooter's nemisis.

As listed in FlameWarriors.com - I am Rebel Leader

Rebel Leader has an uncanny ability to upset the settled order of a discussion forum. Other Warriors may be excellent in mano a mano combat, but Rebel Leader's charisma, political instincts and verbal skills enable him to rally a collective assult that can overthrow the Royals and even silence Cyber Sisters. Depending on the issue Rebel Leader uses to advance his attack he may draw allies from almost any of the other Warrior classes, but he can usually count on Loopy in the early stages of the conflict and Sycophant once the revolution is well underway. Once the revolution has succeeded, however, Rebel Leader quickly loses interest in the cause. As is the case with false King-Fu Masters, the bones of soi-disant Rebel Leaders litter the battlefields.

To reply to your post, that depends completely on what you mean by "directly."

The campsites in question are no more than a quarter the size of a football field, contain approximately twenty tents, and while the adults are not allowed to stay in the same tent with a boy, they are in another one of the tents the entire night.

It is analogous with a boy in his bedroom at home - it is unfair to say his parents are not there simply because he is not sleeping in their bed.

True and this was slightly different because it was more as if the parents sleeping in the house next door than just in the next room. The cabins were wooden enclosed structures - so the chaperones couldn't hear what was going on.

[Percy Weasley]

Ah, I understand now. Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, I can see how that would pose a bit of a problem.

It is sad that there is no way to keep the boys and adults completely safe, and sick from the beginning that other people would do such things to each other. It comes down to a point that you must choose which rule to follow.

At camp, we must, of course, follow HIPPA (the new medical privacy law), which means that the Health Officer must be alone with the boy at all times, to protect his medical privacy. However, what then becomes of the Boy Scout regulation that no adult may ever be alone with a boy? It becomes a moral judgement on which is more important...

[Ruinel]

Girl Scouts have the same policy as Boy Scouts. The adults can not sleep overnight with the scouts. I believe it is to protect the scouts from possible sexual abuse. But then who protects the scouts from the scouts? Or in this case, who protects the team members from the other team members? This is just so f**king sad!


BTW: Percy W., I'm glad you reread that first post. I didn't see that JD was attacking the Boy Scouts at all. He was making a comparison in policy, from what I could tell.

Funny, though... I was talking about the Boy Scouts with a friend of a my roommate. She took her son out of the Boy Scouts because a mom in her son's troop confessed in tears that the boys in her son's tent were performing falacio(sp?) and hand jobs on each other during the camp outs. And that this was a regular practice among the boys.

[Percy Weasley]

That is terrible to hear, Ruinel. I hope action was taken against the leaders that were allowing such things to happen. I assure you that this is the *minority*and that most leaders of the BSA are responsible adults who love the boys as their own. There are rotten eggs everywhere, however.

JerseyDevil, amusing picture. I am afraid we may be set to bump heads. I am an unabashed, pinko, commie, bleeding-heart liberal who only backs down if it is late enough at night or dinner time. People on some boards have nicknamed me "Che," but I assure you I prefer just Percy.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
That is terrible to hear, Ruinel. I hope action was taken against the leaders that were allowing such things to happen. I assure you that this is the *minority*and that most leaders of the BSA are responsible adults who love the boys as their own. There are rotten eggs everywhere, however.

I think what she was getting at was that this was happening at the nighttime in the tents - without any adult supervision. The leaders wouldn't have known anything unless a boy came forward. If (EDIT - should be SOMEONE not no one) SOMEONE came forward and no action was taken - then I can see the leader being responsible. But how can a boy scouts leader be responsible for something that they don't even know is happening?

JerseyDevil, amusing picture. I am afraid we may be set to bump heads. I am an unabashed, pinko, commie, bleeding-heart liberal who only backs down if it is late enough at night or dinner time.

Most likely - especially if you are truly a communist - bleeding heart liberal is bad enough/

[Percy Weasley]

I prefer to call myself a left-wing socialist.

I am not completely communist, although I have read and do support many of Marx's aims. I simply am not naive enough to believe that it has a chance of working, nor do I believe that violent revolution would solve any problems whatsoever.

So:

And back on topic, it seems that there is no easy answer to this problem. An adult in each tent would help, but can you imagine the lawsuits? Children aren't stupid - if they don't like you, they know how to get even, and even an accusation of sexual misconduct could ruin your career...it is a difficult problem to solve.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
That is terrible to hear, Ruinel. I hope action was taken against the leaders that were allowing such things to happen. I assure you that this is the *minority*and that most leaders of the BSA are responsible adults who love the boys as their own. There are rotten eggs everywhere, however.

That's the problem, the leaders had nothing to do with the events. They had no clue that this was going on, because they were not present in the tent when these actions were taking place. I don't think that this should reflect negatively on the leaders at all. How could they know? It wasn't until one of the boys told his mother what was going on that this was known to anyone but that small group of boys.

I hope this clears this up.

I agree, this is a difficult topic. On the one hand, these boys and young men (and young women too) need adult supervision. On the other hand, it is a legal nightmare to be falsely accused of sexual misconduct with a minor. So, which is best? Risk the accusation and keep watchful eye on the minors? Or have faith that they will act apropriately and protect yourself from a legal nightmare? It is a hard situation and a difficult choice that I am glad I don't have to make.

Oh, yes, and welcome "unabashed, pinko, commie, bleeding-heart liberal"/ "left-wing socialist" (aka, Percy).

[Percy Weasley]

Percy is just so much easier, is it not?

Thanks for the welcome.

There is no easy way out of the situation. Either way, someone is at risk. It is simply a decision of which risk to take. Within Boy Scouts, however, we don't have a choice. We can be kicked out as leaders if we violate their Youth Protection Rules. But sometimes there comes a point when you begin to question if the rules are right...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Percy Weasley
Percy is just so much easier, is it not?

Thanks for the welcome.

There is no easy way out of the situation. Either way, someone is at risk. It is simply a decision of which risk to take. Within Boy Scouts, however, we don't have a choice. We can be kicked out as leaders if we violate their Youth Protection Rules. But sometimes there comes a point when you begin to question if the rules are right...

Yes, Percy is much easier.

I don't believe that the Girl Scouts have a choice either. It's part of their written rules and code of conduct for leaders. I don't know which is right. But I'll tell you, I think I'd stay out of the tent if I were in your shoes. Why risk ruining your life, career, reputation? It just isn't worth it. And as you pointed out, it was probably an isolated incident. You said you are a Boy Scout leader. I assume that sort of thing has never happened in your troop.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Funny, though... I was talking about the Boy Scouts with a friend of a my roommate. She took her son out of the Boy Scouts because a mom in her son's troop confessed in tears that the boys in her son's tent were performing falacio(sp?) and hand jobs on each other during the camp outs. And that this was a regular practice among the boys.

wow i find that very ironic considering the boy scouts of america are so militantly anti-homosexual. im sure somebody got run out of town over that incident. but was this a situation where some boys were abusing others or was it just boys experimenting sexually?

[azalea]

I'm just speculating, but depending on the age, it's possible that one of the boys was being sexually abused elsewhere, or had this type of thing done to him by someone else (older cousin or something), who then turned around and introduced it to the group in the tent.

[Agalayth]

Originally posted by Guillaume le Maréchal
Funny. Maybe a better question would be: Where the hell were the parents when they should have been teaching their adolesent children the difference between right and wrong?

--Dave

It is true that the situation would have been better if the parents taught their children better, but you cannot blame the parents for their teenage son's actions. Being a teenager myself, I do consider what my parents tell me, but I consider what I tell myself more than that. And for a lot of kids my age, they don't give a rat's ass about what their parents say. So in this case the parents are irrelavant.

[Guillaume le Maréchal]

you cannot blame the parents for their teenage son's actions

As a parent, I wish that were true. However, if my teenage son were to damage someone else's property or public property, guess who would be financially responsible: me. Until the time my children are legal adults and out of the house, my wishes and opinions cannot, by law, be irrelevant.

Being a teenager myself, I do consider what my parents tell me, but I consider what I tell myself more than that.

Much of what you tell yourself now is due to what you have been taught in childhood, and the primary teachers that formed your current ethical standards, I’m willing to bet, were your parents or guardians.

--Dave

[Starr Polish]

[QUOTE
Much of what you tell yourself now is due to what you have been taught in childhood, and the primary teachers that formed your current ethical standards, I’m willing to bet, were your parents or guardians.

--Dave [/B][/QUOTE]

Very true. I am also a teenager, and I disagree with my parents often. They can be irritating and outdated in their opinions, and it feels like half of the time (or more) they don't understand me.

But they taught me from an early age what they believe is right, and say they tried their best to teach me good morals and values, and a lot of that has stuck with me. I have NEVER stolen anything (except a peanut from a grocery store when I was very young...I thought they were free), smoked, done illegal drugs or drank more than a thimbleful of alcohol.

This incident just reinforces my opinion that too many parents are treating their children like they're some type of god and that their children could "do no wrong." I've encountered such parents at the theater where I work, and it's infuriating. They accuse managers (many of whom are in their twenties and I know are of good moral character) of lying about their child's actions, which include everything from stealing, vandalism, and violent swearing at employees for no reason. I know this is a stereotype, but it seems much more prevalent in kids that are either 1) involved in no type of school activity or 2) extremely competitive and usually team sports. I was in high school track, and I'm not saying athletics are bad, but do you ever hear about drama or choir students sodomizing each other with random objects?