"Do not touch the water"

[barrelrider110]

I agree with Ruinel. The others who posessed an elven ring- Elrond, Gandalf, seemed also to have the gift of forsight. I think all of the elven rings gave the bearer the ability of prescience, though in different ways.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by barrelrider110
I agree with Ruinel. The others who posessed an elven ring- Elrond, Gandalf, seemed also to have the gift of forsight. I think all of the elven rings gave the bearer the ability of prescience, though in different ways.

It appears the gift of forsight was possessed by all the Eldar. Perhaps though, bearing one of the rings of power enhanced that gift.

[kiwi52291]

Originally posted by Sheeana
So then, it is probable that Galadriel knew that Sauron would be searching for Frodo through the mirror, and that in touching the water, Frodo may well have given away his position to Sauron (or something worse, like going over to the spiritual realm where the Nazgul would have overpowered him.)

What about Sam? Why couldn't Sam touch the water. Another reason could be that if they touched the water all the bad stuff they saw would actually happen.

[Elf Girl]

That's an idea. Is there any evidence or is it just a theory?

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by kiwi52291
What about Sam? Why couldn't Sam touch the water. Another reason could be that if they touched the water all the bad stuff they saw would actually happen.

Well, Sauron was looking for ALL hobbits great and small, and it is possible that in touching the water, the 'magic' of Galadriel's ring might have revealed itself and the hobbits to Sauron.

Ruinel: I am still unconvinced that the ring aided her in this - however, I do believe that it may have enhanced her prescience.

[elixir]

I don't really think that touching the water would have harmed them or revealed them to Sauron, because if it had been true, Galadriel had been more careful.

I believe that it would have just ruined the picture in the basin or the water was kind of sacrid.

[kiwi52291]

Actually I didn't give any thought to that comment, I was just bored with too much time on my hands.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by elixir
I don't really think that touching the water would have harmed them or revealed them to Sauron, because if it had been true, Galadriel had been more careful.

Perhaps. Or perhaps there was danger in touching the water, but she was driven to showing them because of great need?

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by elixir
I don't really think that touching the water would have harmed them or revealed them to Sauron, because if it had been true, Galadriel had been more careful.

I don't see why. Frodo and Sam are grown hobbits, they are competent not to touch some water. Galadriel would be demeaning them if she didn't give them the choice because she was afraid they were incompetant.

[elixir]

I didn't mean that being more careful would be not showing them the Mirror, but I think she would have said something more than just "don't touch the water" if it had been dangerous.

And of course the hobbits were competent not to touch the water if they're been told, not on purpose, but it might have happen by accident, someone might have just slipped or something like that...

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by elixir
I didn't mean that being more careful would be not showing them the Mirror, but I think she would have said something more than just "don't touch the water" if it had been dangerous.

I still think that in that situation, with Galadriel saying it, anything she commands will be taken seriousely.

[Lizra]

Well, I really don't know what was meant when she said this, I was thinking along the lines of.....

If they touched the water in her mirror, the "magic" would be ruined, the vision would stop. Perhaps the physical interruption of the "magic" might shock or jolt them, causing bodily damage, amnesia, unconsciousness, brain or body damage etc. I think the notion of touching the water causing events to come true, or change, is placing too much power/importance in her mirror. I saw the mirror as a "vision" device, nothing else.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Ruinel: I am still unconvinced that the ring aided her in this - however, I do believe that it may have enhanced her prescience.

I agree with you and SGH. The Ring could have enhanced her natural prescience.

[barrelrider110]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Well, Sauron was looking for ALL hobbits great and small, and it is possible that in touching the water, the 'magic' of Galadriel's ring might have revealed itself and the hobbits to Sauron.

I find this thread very interesting. It seems that the professor did not provide any definitive answer, so it up to us to speculate.

Galadriel did say, “Seeing is both good and perilous.” Galadriel warned the hobbits twice, gently, but firmly (with exclamation point), about not touching the water. She did this both before they looked into the mirror, and when Frodo saw the eye. Galadriel also said “Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal, and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable than things, which we wish to behold.”

This implies that she has some control over the mirror, maybe she can afford some protection over the viewer as long as the water is not touched. But two points very strongly contradict this argument: (1) It is Galadriel’s mirror, and as such, a mirror can only show an image one-way and (2) when Frodo sees the eye and realizes that the eye is searching for him, “he also knew that it could not see him-not yet, not unless he willed it.”

This implies that the ring was drawn to the eye, much as a dog responds to his master’s call but cannot answer. Frodo was the master of the ring, and could only reveal it to Sauron willingly by putting it on rather than by touching the water.

I think that by touching the water the image mirror would be lost or distorted, or the watcher would suffer physical or mentally. The true peril of the mirror lay in the temptation to allow the mirror to guide your actions:

“Remember [Sam] that the Mirror shows many things, and not all have yet come to pass. Some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them. The Mirror is dangerous as a guide of deeds.”

[Sister Golden Hair]

Another thing that was interesting, is that Galadriel breathed upon the water after she filled the basin. What was her purpose in the first place for even showing them the mirror? Was it because she had seen in Sam's mind that he wished to see Elven magic, or was it to give them a sense of the danger of the enemy? Do you think that the images in the mirror could be influenced by the thoughts or images in the mind of the viewer?

[barrelrider110]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Another thing that was interesting, is that Galadriel breathed upon the water after she filled the basin. What was her purpose in the first place for even showing them the mirror? Was it because she had seen in Sam's mind that he wished to see Elven magic, or was it to give them a sense of the danger of the enemy? Do you think that the images in the mirror could be influenced by the thoughts or images in the mind of the viewer?

I think breathing on the water turned it from a basin filled with water into the mirror. As for her motives-- good question. Certainly she felt connected with Frodo as a ring bearer. There was risk involved in doing it, but the quest itself was a desperate gamble, and if she could aid the quest by any means it would be worth the risk, and Galadriel was definitely a risk-taker.

Or, perhaps by showing Frodo the mirror, doubtless he would see the eye, and be frightened and offer the ring to her. I don't think she wanted to take the ring, for she could have done so easily but perhaps, deep down, she wanted to be offered the ring.

[Elrond the Wise]

I have always thought that if they touch the water the pictures in the mirror wuold go away or somthing like that

[Earniel]

Originally posted by barrelrider110
I agree with Ruinel. The others who posessed an elven ring- Elrond, Gandalf, seemed also to have the gift of forsight. I think all of the elven rings gave the bearer the ability of prescience, though in different ways.

I wonder whether there's a connection between the fact that Galadriel used a water-filled bassin as her mirror and the fact that her ring, Nenya, is the ring of water?

[Melonethriel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
the water was "sacred" in a sense, and something that should not be touched, whether because of any virtue of its own, or because it was used in the Mirror of Galadriel, or that it was somehow "consecrated" (when I say "sacred" and "consecrated", I do not mean in a religious sense, ...) and therefore something which should not be touched.

I agree with Gwaimir. The water was pure, andtherefore powerful. It was never harmed by man, orc, or hobbit for that matter, and it has powers. If the water was tainted at all in any way, I am sure the magic would have been gone.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I wonder whether there's a connection between the fact that Galadriel used a water-filled bassin as her mirror and the fact that her ring, Nenya, is the ring of water?

I personally don't believe that the ring gave her power over the water; I'm of the belief that the rings were meant for preservation, and nothing more. Gandalf, for instance, was a servant of the flame of Anor, which came from Illuvatar, not the ring. It also seems hard to imagine that Elrond's protective spell over the waters around Rivendell came from the power of Air. I think all ring-bearers had their own intrinsic powers that may have been enhanced to some extent by the rings that they bore, but not overly so. You must also remember that the rings were granted to the bearers to be hidden, not used. And, if they were to be used, then why give Cirdan the ring of Fire? Why give Galadriel the ring of Water? Surely it would make more sense to give Cirdan the water one?