Why Aragorn?

[Artanis]

Thanks Val! Here it is:

After Arvedui the North-kingdom ended, for the Dúnedain were now few and all the peoples of Eriador diminished. Yet the line of the kings was continued by the Chieftains of the Dúnedain, of whom Aranarth son of Arvedui was the first. Arahael his son was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him; and there also were kept the heirlooms of their house: the ring of Barahir, the shards of Narsil, the star of Elendil, and the sceptre of Annúminas.

[Haradrim]

Thanks for the reference but what is the Star of Elendil and the sceptre of Annuminas?

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Thanks for the reference but what is the Star of Elendil and the sceptre of Annuminas?

Alas... but a footnote in Appendix A (someone stop me! )

[Haradrim]

You mean it doesnt explain it! WHy would Tolkien do that to us! NOOOOOO! I ReFUSE TO BELIEVE IT! IT CANT BE TRUE! AHHHHHHHHHHH! (death) fooled ya!

[Valandil]

Not sure from your response if I was totally clear... those two items ARE mentioned in a footnote in Appendix A. The same footnote - and a rather large one.

[Haradrim]

thanks a bundle. I am going to start readin Appendix A as soon as I finish SIlmaril. Every time I ask a question people refer me too Appendix A so I think Ill check it out. Or I could just keep bugging you people who have read them until I have basically read them all.

But why did the elves think it wasnt the time for Aragorn. If they had reinstated the line of kings then GOndor would have been in a much better situation and more defenses would have bveen made. I dont even know if Sauron would have been allowed to get where he was if the line had been reinstated sooner.

[Lefty Scaevola]

In Arvedui's time, Gondor (its steward and council) choose a Earnil, a local but more distant heir, but one succesful in its army, in preference over the the claim of Arvedui through Isildur and his wife (daughter od Odenther). This set a precendent (and Gondor was very respectful of precendents) even after they had run out of heir 2 genrations later. Said precedent and the ambitions of the stewards blocked the northern line until Aragorn. The additional factors at that time for Aragorn were: the greater need of Gondor, His formally claimming through Elendil rather that Isildur, and his record of service with Gondor's armies, both recently and as Thoringil in his youth.

[Haradrim]

I guess I understand why Aragorn was the first but why couldnt the White COuncil as soon as they knew that Sauron was rising put Aragorn in the throne. Because they could have. And then the war of the ring becomes a lot easier because Aragorn would not be corrupted. He would have helped out against Saruman making it so that they could take the pass of Rohan and then wait in GOndor until the battle is over and then waltz up to <ount Doom and drop the ring in. I know Ive oversimplifyed it.

[Radagast The Brown]

I can't really see how would Aragorn help them from the throne so much... and can't see how the White Council will 'put' him in the throne.
Plus, they wouldn't win Sauron in war - and will likely lose to Saruman as well, as they won't be in Helm's Deep because Warmtongue was still affecting Theoden. And the fellowship wouldn'yt have a leader without Aragorn after Gandalf dies in Moria - probably Boromir will be then, and it'll destroy the journey, I suppsoe.

[Earniel]

I doubt the White Council had any authority to put Aragorn on the throne. Denethor would never had allowed such meddling in the state affairs of Gondor, and rightly so.

And how was Aragorn corrupted in the war of the ring?

Besides, even if Aragorn sat on the throne of Gondor, he wouldn't have been able to aid Rohan at all. Gondor needed to defend its own boundaries, they had no men to spare to send to Rohan. Otherwise they would never have send the red arrow to Théoden.

If Aragorn had been in Gondor, he had been quite stuck there with no possibility of getting allied forces to Gondor to help defend it. He could never have summoned the Oathbreakers to capture the corsair fleet of Umbar.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Plus before The War of the Ring and the danger that Gondor was in wasn't Aragorn happy to be chieftan of the Dunedain.

[Haradrim]

Okay Ill by that Aragorn cam precisely when he was needed. Thanks evryone.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

I'd be interested to hear this evidence, Olmer.

Halbarad.
Do you know the difference between "one of his kin", and "one of his kindred"? Read closely.
Considering that fostered in Rivendell Chieftains of the Dunedain led very dangerous life, almost daily putting their life under the risk, and still for all 1000 years the line of the kings miraculously continued, you can't help not to wonder was it something else behind the such apparent carelessness?
The answer is in description of Aragorn's youth, which was TYPICAL for all living in Imladris kids-Dunadan: they had no idea who they are. Which suggests that at the time it was not just one heir running around (otherwise even under the different name the enemy's spies would figure out who is the heir of Isildur), but a group of kids closely related by the blood. When the time was coming to replace the killed in the raid Chieftan Elrond himself were announcing the new Chieftan pickin him out of many "alternative options": it could be a brother, cousin or son, the most important he has to have Isildur's blood in his veins.

[Haradrim]

So you are saying that Aragorn didnt have a direct line to ISildur? That seems highly unbelievable because if you check the records in the Appendices Aragron is straight down the great-great-great etc. something grandson of Isildur. Mayb ethe elves would have mainpulated but Tolkien wouldnt have lied about it. Also you mentioned him having another son and a brother but you didnt answer about those.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Aragorn definitly is direct from Isildur himself as even Elronds states this in CoE.

[Haradrim]

Thanks for backing me up T.D! Can I call you that?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Halbarad.
Do you know the difference between "one of his kin", and "one of his kindred"? Read closely.
Considering that fostered in Rivendell Chieftains of the Dunedain led very dangerous life, almost daily putting their life under the risk, and still for all 1000 years the line of the kings miraculously continued, you can't help not to wonder was it something else behind the such apparent carelessness?
The answer is in description of Aragorn's youth, which was TYPICAL for all living in Imladris kids-Dunadan: they had no idea who they are. Which suggests that at the time it was not just one heir running around (otherwise even under the different name the enemy's spies would figure out who is the heir of Isildur), but a group of kids closely related by the blood. When the time was coming to replace the killed in the raid Chieftan Elrond himself were announcing the new Chieftan pickin him out of many "alternative options": it could be a brother, cousin or son, the most important he has to have Isildur's blood in his veins.

Interesting theory but I'm not so sure. I trust the Dúnedain knew very well the state and members of their royal house so I doubt there would be any close relative of Aragorn that was also a direct heir that they didn't know about. Furthermore I doubt they would have left the choosing of a new chieftain to Elrond, they would have chosen him themselves. They might have respected Elrond and heeded his counsel but I doubt they were that far gone that they would let him decide on their own chieftains.

Now, to consider the options of another direct heir, I'd say it couldn't have been a cousin. Because if there had been one, Ivorwen wouldn't have insisted on Gilraen's marriage with Arathorn the way she did when Gilraen was considered still too young at the time of marriage. That indicates to me that Arathorn was the last heir of the royal line and that with his death the line would have died out if he hadn't produced an heir before that.

Aragorn couldn't have had a son of his own, do you honestly believe Elrond would have given him Arwen as wife if Aragorn had a son and a woman somewhere already? It would have been an unforgivable insult to Arwen and Elrond had too high a regard for his daughter to do that to her.

Now a brother or a sister to Aragorn would be a better possibility even though Arathorn died when Aragorn was but two so that leaves a very small time limit. On the other hand, if he had had a sibling I find it impossible that that said sibling would remain unmentioned at all.

I also wouldn't make the asumption that all Dúnedain children raised in Rivendell were unaware of their decent and kin until Elrond told them. I'm guessing Aragorn was an exeption because he was the last of the line. It was Elrond's request, not order, that Aragorn was told nothing before the time was ripe. If Arathorn had lived longer, I doubt there would have been need to hide Aragorn's lineage until his twenty years.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I remember reading somethingg about Gilraen taking Aragorn to Rivedell to protect him and keep the line of Isildur alive.

[Thorin II]

Another thing to remember is that until Denethor lost his marbles, Gondor was in pretty good shape with him in charge. Boromir and Faramir were great captains and Denethor was a wise leader. Aragorn was the rightful leader, but apart from his greatness, the reason he was needed was that the Steward had gone batty.

[Attalus]

As Gandalf put it, 'in the days of the wisdom or Denethor'.