Travel Tips

[BeardofPants]

Seriously: all hassling aside, I hope you have a good time Khamul, and do whatever makes you feel comfortable. Obviously though, people are more willing to help out tourists when they make accessions to the places they're visiting. Have fun!

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The way Bop said it - "don't mind 'just being themselves' - and don't care that everyone can tell they're American"

Er, not me.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
So that you aren't labeled as the "ugly American." That's why. You should respect other people, whether or not you expect the same of them. You are a guest in their country. You want to be culturally sensitive.

Wearing blue jeans and being yourself is not culturally insensitive. it is not a matter of respecting other people. respecting other people is how you treat them - not what you wear. Now if you go in a hiked up mini-skirt in a muslim country - that's a bit disrepectful. But I wouldn't go to another country that dictated what I could and couldn't wear - therefore I would not go to the Middle East.

But I have seen what my friend in Italy wears - I would like to know why I would have to dress differently just not be labeled an "ugly american". She wore jeans to Sweden.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Twista
Really? I live 5 minutes out the center of Edinburgh. Do you know where they stayed?

Oh darn, had I known that before... I visited Scotland and Edinburgh last April.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Er, not me.

Sorry - must have scrolled while copying it and thought it was you. It was Valandil who said it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Seriously: all hassling aside, I hope you have a good time Khamul, and do whatever makes you feel comfortable. Obviously though, people are more willing to help out tourists when they make accessions to the places they're visiting.

The most important thing is to be interested in the place you are visiting - more than changing your identity. really - if you have to lie about your nationality to feel welcome - why bother going to a place like that.

While I was in canada - trish's mother and her friends were talking about a trip they went on to Europe. I was just listening - and they mentioned how people in Europe were snotty to them when they thought they were Americans. They were very nice and completely changed their attitude when they found out they were Canadians. They then started wearing maple leaf pins on their shirts. Says more about Europeans attitude than American attititude.

[Twista]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I would like to go into the Moors of Scotland.

Okaaaaay lol

Man all there is in the Moors is hills, grass and a variety of sheep and cows. Nothing of much interest. lol. Its no different from any country side really, im just glad you didnt say "I really want to visit Lock Ness" lol.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Twista
Okaaaaay lol

Man all there is in the Moors is hills, grass and a variety of sheep and cows. Nothing of much interest. lol. Its no different from any country side really, im just glad you didnt say "I really want to visit Lock Ness" lol.

Well actually - I like those things because they're peaceful. I like going down to Southern NJ because of the lowlands and stuff. As for Loch Ness - I would like to go there too - there is a cool castle that overlooks the lake - although I don't know if it's open to the public. Is it open to the public?

[Elvengirl]

Hey awesome Khamul!
I want to go to England and Scotland so badly. I'm thinking about it in the next year or so. As far as tips go.....I'll have to ask you when I go Oh, take a camera, don't lose anything, and HAVE FUN

I wouldn't see anything wrong with wearing jeans and a T-shirt. But that's me and I wouldn't change just to try and fit in. I mean my American accent would give myself away anyways.

Twista, the Moors must be beautiful. I would love to see them

[Valandil]

Twista - I think everyone in America just wants to see the moors because it's the setting for the Sherlock Holmes story 'The Hound of the Baskervilles'.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The most important thing is to be interested in the place you are visiting - more than changing your identity. really - if you have to lie about your nationality to feel welcome - why bother going to a place like that.

Please don't think I meant you should "lie" about your nationality. In whatever country your'e in, they will be able to distinguish you as an American. However, you want to come across as the Ugly American, which you can easily and unknowingly do:

Embrace the American- Leave the Ugly Home
The Ugly American operates on the assumption that American culture is superior to all other cultures in the world, and that the other cultures should all just be Americanized.
The Ugly American does not learn other languages. He feels that people from other cultures should just learn English.
The Ugly American is loud, and demonstrative, and likes to draw attention to himself in public.
The Ugly American makes no effort to blend in with custom of the host country - he insists on prominently and publicly displaying American attitudes and behaviors.
The Ugly American always and everywhere dresses in the same uniform - shorts (or jeans), tee-shirts, baseball caps, and white sneakers.
The Ugly American becomes angry when people don't do things the American way.
The Ugly American is an irate customer, and feels free to abuse, insult, threaten, and humiliate service workers, because, after all, "the customer is always right".
The Ugly American frequently asks unreasonable questions and makes unreasonable requests, because, after all, "it doesn't hurt to ask".
The Ugly American has usually had "assertiveness training".
The Ugly American feels that the rules of courtesy do not apply to him.
The Ugly American is an enthusiastic proponent of the culture of complaint, and does not hesitate to cause trouble and start fights, or to engage in belligerent and confrontational behavior.
The Ugly American prefers American pop culture over European classical culture, and is not interested in learning from Europeans.
The Ugly American is neither embarrassed nor apologetic about any of this, but on the contrary, militantly insists on his right to behave like an Ugly American.

Don't you think being culturally sensitive shows more about your own character? And how un-ugly American an American could be if they sincerely tried?

I am in no way saying any of you are an ugly American, rather, this is how many Americans who travel abroad to Europe come across. I've seen many of these examples first hand.


EDIT: Here's an article about this from the NY Times. It focuses on the subject a bit more as to avoiding terrorism.

[azalea]

Lucky you, Khamul! Have a great time!

Yes, I would echo the above advice -- comfortable shoes! I bought a nice pair of black walking shoes before going to England, and I was so glad I had! Also, take advantage of being there. You may get tired, but just remember that this is your chance to see it all, and you never know when you'll get that chance again, so keep on moving!
It also helped us to make a list of stuff we wanted to see, and then do a schedule based on that, allowing for unexpected side trips if we discovered we wanted to do something else instead.

(I think that people from all countries have the potential to be obnoxious jerks [ask me about the Portugese guy I met in London ]. I agree with JD, I think it shows a lack of character on the part of the native person who makes unfair assumptions about people by the way they dress, or the way they act during one encounter, which may be due to stress because they are travelling far from home and may have some problem they are trying to solve related to said travel.
I agree that many Americans have issues, but I try to focus on improving my own faults and behavior, rather than indulge in petty gossip and finger pointing at others.)

Edit: The moors! Not just Hound of the Baskervilles, but also The Secret Garden. That book really romanticizes the moors, and makes you want to go and run on them, with the wind blowing your hair out behind you!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Please don't think I meant you should "lie" about your nationality. In whatever country your'e in, they will be able to distinguish you as an American. However, you want to come across as the Ugly American, which you can easily and unknowingly do:



Don't you think being culturally sensitive shows more about your own character? And how un-ugly American an American could be if they sincerely tried?

I am in no way saying any of you are an ugly American, rather, this is how many Americans who travel abroad to Europe come across. I've seen many of these examples first hand.


EDIT: Here's an article about this from the NY Times. It focuses on the subject a bit more as to avoiding terrorism.

And i have SEEN MANY ugly europeans as well as Asians. Actually the japanese as far as I'm concerned are the worse. They used to always run through the Twin Towers to run up the escalator and push people out of the way. Now that is ugly behavor. What one wears is not ugly - nor should someone judge one on what they wear.

I have experience MANY international travelers in NJ, NY, Walt Disney World, Grand Canyon and other places. I find the ugliness goes around - and is not restricted to just Americans.

I'm breaking this apart...

The Ugly American makes no effort to blend in with custom of the host country - he insists on prominently and publicly displaying American attitudes and behaviors.

So in other words - don't act like Americans or show any pride in your country. Wow. I have seen many Europeans and Asians demonstrate this same behavior. I have had lunch and dinner with people from England - in my own ****ing country - who all they did was bitch about our food and how superior England was and that if I ever went there - I would see real culture.

The Ugly American always and everywhere dresses in the same uniform - shorts (or jeans), tee-shirts, baseball caps, and white sneakers.

Sorry - why do we have to wear what people in another country wear? we don't make people wear t-shirts and so forth when they come here and we don't judge them on it. I wear t-shirts and skater pants - liek me or don't like me based on what I wear - it shows more of that persons arrogant and bigotry than anything else. it's like french with the headscarf. There were peple saying - of course they shouldn't wear headscarves - they're in france and should act and look french. Sorry - the US has a different culture - we're open to others difference. I'll take that over the French attitude any day.

The Ugly American is an irate customer, and feels free to abuse, insult, threaten, and humiliate service workers, because, after all, "the customer is always right".

I have seen this repeatedly from other people in other countries. I think this is not an ugly american trait. I for one do not treat service impolitely. I will not give a good tip though if service is not good though. Whereas in Europe tip is included - regardless of quality of service.

The Ugly American prefers American pop culture over European classical culture, and is not interested in learning from Europeans.

This one ****ing pisses me off. This is a god damned arrogant stereotype of the superior european attitude.


You know what - that whole list I have seen can apply to ANY culture. I have seen it demonstrated many times over among French, British, Japanese and many other nationalities. That is an ****ing anti-american bigotted list. If someone is showing ME respect - I will show them respect - if they disrespect me - they have no grounds to expect any kindness from me. They can go to hell. If that is an ugly american - so be it. But I will and have gone to other countries and given them respect and have worked to learn their culture - but I will not be talked to like crap by someone either.

You know what you can do with your damn arrogant anti-american list?

In small towns and cities of America - people don't see visitors as much as can be seen in NY or NJ. Don't you think it's RUDE to undress on the beach when it's not the custom here and for another illegal? Because two years ago - there were a whole group of Europeans who went uncder the boardwalk in broad daylight - while people were still on the beach and stripped down and changed. While children were even on the beach. They didn't follow OUR culture.

Mercutio - if you are wondering what pisses me off on entmoot - is exactly this attitude and one sided anti-american crap you just posted. When I have experienced the same behavior from many other nationalities visitiing here. We're expected to conform to others in their countries and we're expected to put up with their crap and attitude when they're in ours. It doesn't go like that. I will respect ONLY those people who respect me - anyone else doesn't deserve my respect - nor should they expect it.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I have seen many Europeans and Asians demonstrate this same behavior. I have had lunch and dinner with people from England - in my own ****ing country - who all they did was ***** about our food and how superior England was and that if I ever went there - I would see real culture.

Sorry - why do we have to wear what people in another country wear? we don't make people wear t-shirts and so forth when they come here and we don't judge them on it. I wear t-shirts and skater pants - liek me or don't like me based on what I wear - it shows more of that persons arrogant and bigotry than anything else. it's like french with the headscarf. There were peple saying - of course they shouldn't wear headscarves - they're in france and should act and look french. Sorry - the US has a different culture - we're open to others difference. I'll take that over the French attitude any day.

I have seen this repeatedly from other people in other countries. I think this is not an ugly american trait. I for one do not treat service impolitely. I will not give a good tip though if service is not good though. Whereas in Europe tip is included - regardless of quality of service.


This one ****ing pisses me off. This is a god damned arrogant stereotype of the superior european attitude.


You know what - that whole list I have seen can apply to ANY culture. I have seen it demonstrated many times over among French, British, Japanese and many other nationalities. That is an ****ing anti-american bigotted list. If someone is showing ME respect - I will show them respect - if they disrespect me - they have no grounds to expect any kindness from me. They can go to hell. If that is an ugly american - so be it. But I will and have gone to other countries and given them respect and have worked to learn their culture - but I will not be talked to like crap by someone either.

You know what you can do with your damn arrogant anti-american list?

In small towns and cities of America - people don't see visitors as much as can be seen in NY or NJ. Don't you think it's RUDE to undress on the beach when it's not the custom here and for another illegal? Because two years ago - there were a whole group of Europeans who went uncder the boardwalk in broad daylight - while people were still on the beach and stripped down and changed. While children were even on the beach. They didn't follow OUR culture.

Mercutio - if you are wondering what pisses me off on entmoot - is exactly this attitude and one sided anti-american **** you just posted. When I have experienced the same behavior from many other nationalities visitiing here. We're expected to conform to others in their countries and we're expected to put up with their crap and attitude when they're in ours. It doesn't go like that. I will respect ONLY those people who respect me - anyone else doesn't deserve my respect - nor should they expect it.

Do you not admit that people in other countries sometimes upset you by their behavior in the U.S.? So what if some of us upset them?

Haven't you heard "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
I wouldn't see anything wrong with wearing jeans and a T-shirt. But that's me and I wouldn't change just to try and fit in.

And they wouldn't judge you on it either - as long as they respected the American culture and the differences of others. It's people who don't respect America or people's differences that would have a problem with it.

My friend from Russia moved to LA - I went out there to meet her the second week she moved out to help her around. We went to Seaworld - as well as Disneyland - when we went to Seaworld - she wore a mini-skirt, blouse and heels. i told her that she could have worn something more comfortable - we're just going to seaworld but at the same time - I didn't think anything about it - nor did I criticize her for it.

Someone who was supposed to come out this summer to visit me - I had told him he shoudl just wear comfortable clothes - he doesn't have to wear botton down shirts and slacks and stuff. Just be comfortable. If he did - I wouldn't have cared - but I was just saying to him - relax.

[Hawklan]

although its wrong to generalise...

be very careful if visiting major cities eg liverpool,london birmingham, etc as they can be quite scary at times...some of the locals are wonderful,sadly some are not, so go with your nose and keep your fingers crossed. I ahve found merseyside ( liverpool ) has got a lot more aggressive over the last few years
and a feeling of i want has descended, i want at nay costs. hope im not putting you off, there are some wondeful people and places in england, especially the lake district , try and spend a couple of days there...i go as often as possible.
central London is a nightmare for tourists ( sorry any cockneys out there )and so expensive you wouldnt beleive it...the south coast is fantastic at this time of year,devon and cornwall !
hope you enjoy you hols, make sure someone knows where you are....beware the full moon...dont stray from the path...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Do you not admit that people in other countries sometimes upset you by their behavior in the U.S.? So what if some of us upset them?

Haven't you heard "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

What they ****ing wear doesn't upset me. You know i have been upset only a few times by people - where it was serious. Thatw as REPEATEDLY by japanese businessmen acting like two year olds running through the Twin Towers and pushing people out of the way as they rushed up the escalator to get to the ticket counter. The thing is - the first time it happened I just thought it was just those individuals - except I saw it happen 3 other occasions with Japanese businessmen. They acted like two year olds. That is bad bahavior anywhere.

The other time was when this French woman all through the Grand Cayon - I passed by her about 4 times - would go up to people who she knew weren't American and bitch about the country. When i first met her - she was bitching to a British couple - who were very rellieved when she left them alone finally. I have some of what she said to them on video tape. Then she met up later on with some scandanavians and bitched to them about America. Then she went up later to some Asian Indians and told them how she loved India and how much the US sucked and then she made a comment about American culture and stuff. It was just one thing after the other. After that last exchange - I flipped her off. I was in my own country - and she was an arrogant bitch.

The as I had above - my great lunches with my father's British business partners.

But I was never upset by them acting foreign, telling me about their culture or wearing un-american clothing. There are people I have seen walking down the streets of Philadelphia in full burkas. All I want is to be treated with respect - and that goes for both sides. That is the ONLY thing that people should expect from Americans - they only deserve that respect if they give it to us.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Hawklan
be very careful if visiting major cities eg liverpool,london birmingham, etc as they can be quite scary at times...some of the locals are wonderful,sadly some are not, so go with your nose and keep your fingers crossed.

I think that goes for any place. People say things like how dangerous NY is- it's actually not though in per capita crime - it's actually a very safe city. But as I tell people - would you go through a dark alley in a small town you don't know? Then don't go in a dark alley in NY either. You have to keep your eyes open and your guard up. It's safe in the tourist spots - never saw a murder or anything in NY - but I wouldn't go through a dark alley in NY. Hell there are places in Trenton I don't feel completely comfortable in.

[Hawklan]

mmaybe it would be cool in an ideal world just to treat people how you would like to be treated. I couldnt give a toss who wears what and will treat people as persons rather than ambassadors, theres good and bad in every country and the press tend to sensationalise and concentrate on the extremes..if you believed them, all teenage americans are in street gangs or are potential mass murderers..honestly its beyond contempt. To english people the french are supposed to be our natural enemies because they are geographically next to us...how can i hate the french when i dont know any french people..the welsh hate the english, i happen to work in wales and enjoy the banter nad rivalry, but get on great with my work colleagues..i get called a robbing scouse get, but its all in banter ( i think..). A popular opinion of americans is they are loud brash and incensitive...what, all of them ? i have met a couple of americans through work and found them to be friendly helpful and confident,the type of persons that get on well with all...i know its only 2 out of zillions, but i take as i find.

[Coney II]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I think that goes for any place. People say things like how dangerous NY is- it's actually not though in per capita crime - it's actually a very safe city. But as I tell people - would you go through a dark alley in a small town you don't know? Then don't go in a dark alley in NY either. You have to keep your eyes open and your guard up. It's safe in the tourist spots - never saw a murder or anything in NY - but I wouldn't go through a dark alley in NY. Hell there are places in Trenton I don't feel completely comfortable in.

Yup, london and NY are on about the same par where muggings etc are a risk.

If you are doing a lot of travelling in England then i recommend you organise transport etc well in advance Khamul.

And as the others have said, pack light.....England is 12 times more crowded than the USAmerica....so you are never going to be far from where you may need to buy any lil' necessaries

And if you get the chance.......please visit the Lake District. It is a beautifull place and yer'll finally get to see wot all those soppy old English poets were wibbling on about

As for attitude towards Americans.....sure you'll see/hear it. But as with everywhere, use common sense with who ya talk to and yer'll be fine

Edit: As to wot yer wear......wear wotever yer like....but bare in mind that the only folks here who wear baseball caps and baggy trousers are 12 yr old kids who think eminem is God

[Hawklan]

hey..i told him to go to the lake district...stop nicking my thunder