The Beatles

[Comic Book Guy]

Originally posted by Lizra
Sorry CBG, I think you're just sour grapes on the Beatles. Your opinion is in the very, very small minority, I don't agree at all

Sour grapes is wrong, like I have said twice before, I like the Beatles, I just believe they are over rated. I know I am in the minority, it doesn't mean I'm wrong, popular opinion and belief does not mean it is correct or true.

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Their music evolved from simple harmonies (blues) into more complex structures. Their music is more interesting because it has an asymmetric structure to it. While "Please Please" me has a rather annoying 3 chord structure, their music changed drastically during the later stages. "Michelle" has complex harmonies, and it stands up to improvisation, which is why jazz musicians sometimes use it as a standard. Most of Paul McCartney's stuff has some classic good harmonic progression, and generally works within the western harmonic traditions. John however, tended to step outside the boundaries of western harmonic tradition; experimenting heavily with electronic music and lyrical profundity. He also experimented with the traditional harmonic structures, and in doing so, perhaps changed our perception of what defines traditional harmonies.

The Beatles did not change music theory, the idea that they did is absurd. I still stand by my belief that most Beatles songs are simple and they are not the greatest musicans.

[Lizra]

Well, I think you are wrong. That's my opinion. The Beatles are great! But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Getchan]

I love the Beatles, from the early days on to Abbey Road. But how about the movies? They all have their own charm, even the cool-but-a-downer Let It Be. My fave is Yellow Submarine. The animation is great, the story is wonderfully goofy, and the Blue Meanies kick ass!!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
The Beatles did not change music theory, the idea that they did is absurd. I still stand by my belief that most Beatles songs are simple and they are not the greatest musicans.

Please reread what I said, because I never claimed that.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I fail to see how you can possibly denounce all their music as simplistic.

Just as an aside, just how complex do you think Led Zep is? I'm not being sarky here; I'm geniunely interested in how you think they compare. Please be as technical as you can in your response. Just dashing away something as "simplistic" without justification makes it rather hard to respond to.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Getchan
But how about the movies?

My favourite Beatles movie would have to be Help! I love all that business with the Ring.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
My favourite Beatles movie would have to be Help! I love all that business with the Ring.

Thats interesting, because A Hard Days Night is generally regarded as a better film (but as we have seen, just because the critics like it doesn't mean its great). I like Help! and it is in glorious color, but I think that AHDN is better.

CBG: I do not think that the Beatles songs were simple. In the early years perhaps songs like She Loves You and Love Me Do were simple but at the end of the sixties, they became more mature. Some of the songs are very complex, like A Day in the Life and Strawberry Fields Forever, musically. As for thier lyrics, John wrote some really complex lyrics, like in All You Need is Love, which I still have trouble understanding.

Speaking of All You Need is Love, who do you think sings "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yea, she love to.." at the end? I think its John, but some people think it is Paul.

[Lizra]

Mmmmmm! I like "A Hard Days Night" best (it's a hard call, I love the "ski clothes" in Help), the black and white shots on the trains remind me of living in Europe. Paul's "grandpa" was another "stinky old man"! I think you are right Cass, I go for John singing the "yeah yeahs".

[Draken]

Check out

http://www.rathergood.com/chicken/

It's clean, very funny and sort of relevant to this thread!

[BeardofPants]

I know that AHDN is supposed to be the better film, and I really like it - especially Ringo's solo, and Grandfather, but Help! suits my sense of humour more.

[Lizra]

I'm happy to watch them both! repeatedly! Don't think I could do that with Yellow Sub though. I need my Fab Four in the flesh!

[Comic Book Guy]

BeardOfPants, lets just quit while we are ahead, none of us are going to accept (me included) anybodies points on anything and things can go ugly and personal when band loyalty is concerned.

I stress again that I like the Beatles and that I own several albums, my favourite Beatle's album is Srgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club band while my favourite Beatles song is Let it Be, it has one of my personal favourite guitar leads and interesting drumming.

I believe that the Beatles hated Let it be as an album, can anybody clarify this?

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
I believe that the Beatles hated Let it be as an album, can anybody clarify this?

I am not sure about this, but it certainly is a haphazard album. Perhaps it has bad memories, as this is the time when they were arguing and beginning to break up. John said something like: He (the producer, Phil Spector) fixed up the album because it was really bad. So perhaps John felt that Let it Be was alright. It certainly has some good tracks, like Let it Be, Two of Us and Across the Universe.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
BeardOfPants, lets just quit while we are ahead, none of us are going to accept (me included) anybodies points on anything and things can go ugly and personal when band loyalty is concerned.

Agreed.

CBG:
I believe that the Beatles hated Let it be as an album, can anybody clarify this?

Well, for Let it be, they decided to go back to their live roots; because of this, the album as a whole, probably lacks the 'polish' of their other ones. I love the album, but it is so different from their other ones.

Also, as Cass mentioned, there was a lot of bad blood during the recording sessions, so it is entirely possibly that some of this negativity translated over into their music.

And then there was Phil Spector's atrocious mangling of The Long and Winding Road.

[Lizra]

Phil Spector! What a weirdo. To think, Brian Wilson thought he was speaking to him through the walls! Did Ronnie Spector (or the Ronettes) ever get any money from him? The Long and Winding Road! ugh!

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
And then there was Phil Spector's atrocious mangling of The Long and Winding Road.

Paul really hated what Spector did to that song. It is one of my least favorite Beatles songs. I like to call it The Long and Crappy Road. I tend to insert crap into many phrases. Has anyone seen the movie, Let it Be?. I havn't seen it yet and I don't think you can buy it. I have seen clips of it, like when George is fighting with Paul, saying that he will play the guitar whichever way Paul wants him too.

[BeardofPants]

I have only seen the excerps of Let it Be from Anthology ... yes, I did watch all 8 videos.

I don't think Phil ever paid the Ronettes. Ugh. Wall of sound my lily white heiny. More like wall of crap.

I like the original version of the Long and Winding Road, but even then, it's not my favourite song. I prefer Let it Be, Two of Us, and Dig a Pony.

Paul looked like he was being a right prig in Let it Be, but then, someone had to be; it didn't look like they were making much progress... (Perhaps he could have handled it better, though.)

[Lizra]

So....I was just listening to "Beatle Brunch", today, a full hour on "Beatles For Sale" lp. (joy!) The BBC interviews are great! They said Beatle Brunch dot com, I'll have to try.

Also, The Let It Be period kills me with the hair! By that time, the long hair thing had totally run it's course, facial and head! Nobody knew what to do with it, including the Beatles! The hair thing may sound silly now, but in the sixties, it was such a "badge" of who you were, politically. It's almost impossible to comprehend in the "anything goes" atmosphere we have today. The fifities were all about crewcuts. Nobody but greaser guys had long (this would mean touching the ears or eyebrows!) hair, and they were basically considered "hoods". I remember the classical music section at the Army PX was called the "Longhair" section!! (Boy did that word change meaning heehee). Many people would look at someone with long hair and instantly hate them! (Easy Rider!). The longer hair thing ran it's course, after so many years, even the Beatles didn't know what to do with the silly hair business. How about all the "Handlebar" moustaches in the psychedelic phase!
I think the glitter trend finally gave trendoids a new place to go with their hair, after all the long hair stuff. I must add, the current trend of the "Fu Man Chu" moustache and other funny linear little hair growths on men's chins has been going on quite a long time! I thought DeNizio of the Smithereens was on the cutting edge of that look back in the eighties. Who else? Sorry to ramble on, hair is/was a big deal to babyboomers!

[IronParrot]

Beatles Brunch? Funny, there's a show like that where I am (er, was) in Calgary that I listened to every Sunday morning... are those commonplace?

As for the Beatles. Best. Band. Ever. Don't mess with them. I could go on and on about them but I think, out of laziness, I'll recommend the Douglas Adams essay "The Voices of All Our Yesterdays" instead. (It's found in The Salmon of Doubt)

More details to come. Sometime.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by IronParrot
As for the Beatles. Best. Band. Ever. Don't mess with them. I could go on and on about them but I think, out of laziness, I'll recommend the Douglas Adams essay "The Voices of All Our Yesterdays" instead. (It's found in The Salmon of Doubt)

I love Douglas Adams and the Beatles, so I'll have to read that. Thanks. Some sad anniverseries are coming up soon....

[Coney]

New George Harrison album released

http://www.itv.com/news/Entertainment1720395.html

I was never the biggest fan of his work, although much of it I did find pleasant listening.