The Lord of the Rings Discussion Project: Chapter 5 and Chapter 6

[Nurvingiel]

Great write-up JD. (Couldn't resist taking a couple digs at the movie eh? )

Chapter 5:

I agree that Chapter 5 is extremely important in solidifying the Hobbit's friendship. One aspect that I also feel is brought out in this chapter is how Merry, Frodo, and Pippin are friends with Sam on a different level. Your own quote outlines this perfectly for me.

“You do not understand!” Said Pippin. “You must go – and therefore we must, too. Merry and I are coming with you. Sam is an excellent fellow, and would jump down a dragon’s throat to save you, if he did not trip over his own feet; but you will need more than one companion in your dangerous adventure.”

Pippin refers to himself and Merry separately from Sam. This subtle difference indicates the class difference present in their friendship.
The nature of their friendship changes over the course of the book, but at this point, Frodo, Merry and Pippin are good friends. Sam is also a friend to all of them, but is also regarded as Frodo's servant since he's his gardener.
This is what Hobbit culture is like, and it's something we certainly have no concept of in today's Canadian society (I can't speak for anyone else's country). There's the gentlehobbits, who are like a class above regular Hobbits. Sam is a regular Hobbit, and Frodo, Merry and Pippin, who are all related, are the upper class - gentlehobbits. I believe it's the Gaffer who refers to Frodo as "a real gentlehobbit".
I'm not sure if this is necessarily a positive or negative aspect, but it's certainly an important factor. Would Sam's loyalty to Frodo have been as strong if he hadn't been his servant originally? By the time they reached Mount Doom, they were definitely great friends and equals. Even then, I don't feel the servant-master aspect of their relationship was entirely erased. (Insert apropriate quote here.) Pippin and Merry probably regarded him as an equal by the end, possibly before that.
In the Scouring of the Shire, Merry, Sam, and Pippin all distinguished themselves equally in battle, and Sam later went on to become Mayor of Hobbiton many times (11?).
All this is not to say that Merry, Pippin, and Frodo looked down on Sam. They were equals, but at the same time, of different classes. I don't understand the concept of class and therefore can't explain it, but I do believe it was an important factor in the friendship of the four Hobbits.

Chapter 6:

What you say about the Old Forest not adding to much to the characterization or the plot of the story is interesting. Compared to many other chapters in the book, there isn't a lot of character development. The Old Forest is an elaborate plot device. It serves to introduce Tom Bombadil (also a plot device), and to find a plausible explanation as to why the Nazgul totally lost their trail until Bree. The Old Forest let the Hobbits give the Black Riders the slip. It introduced Tom, without whom they obviously wouldn't have been able to get through the Barrow-Downs. Here is also where Merry receives the blade which helped kill the Nazgul Captain later. All of these are important devices to advancing the story, and Tolkien deliveres them in his typical fashion - exciting, subtle, and totally involving the reader.

[The Gaffer]

Good points, Nurv.

I think of Chapter 6 as the start of the kind of spiritual sub-plot.

[BTW, Valandil, I don't think of this in a negative way either. The fact that Tom talks in silly rhymes just adds to the extremity of it. It's sillier and more serious than the mundane Shire. Let's face it, the idea of halflings living in a hole in the ground is pretty silly to begin with...]

It also shatters the cosy familiarity of the Shire. Suddenly the world is very different, very "Other" and the hobbits are helpless wanderers.

Tolkien repeatedly uses the device in LOTR of saying that something "seems" to be the case (or "as if" or "like") when there's a very strong implication that they actually are literally the case.

An example here being the ruts and vegetation that seem to give way to the right and down, but not to the left and up.

Tom later states that it's hard for hobbits to escape Old Man Willow's traps: a pretty strong indication that this "seeming" was actually true.

This ambiguity adds hugely to the fun.

That seems to be a sensible thing to say about this chapter..

[Olmer]

Here is my observation.
Mostly of it have been already mentioned and discussed, but any way, I'm copying from my old notes. Maybe a few things will be of some interest.

This chapter reveals hobbits in very important aspect : as an extremely loyal friends, and , also, it depict the last time when the company really enjoyed themselves not being burdened with an unknown dangers of the laying ahead quest.

We have a glimpse of surrounding where Frodo originally came from. It is “ virtually a small independent country,” where people more close to nature, more “out-doorish”, hunting and fishing, but at the same time they more aware of the perils of the outside world. ”The Bucklanders keep theirs doors locked after the dark”, and they even keep enough of gate-guards for sufficient resistance of the outsiders attacks.

While crossing the river the hobbits had been reminded that the chase is not over, yet; the Black Riders missed them by a few minutes. ”In the far stage, under the distant lamps, they could just make out a figure: it looked like a dark black bundle left behind. But as they looked it seems to move and sway this way and that, as it searching the ground.”

The Crickhollow, Frodo’s new dwelling place, gives an impression of very nice, secluded place, not “the hole in the ground”, but a “countrified house”. I wonder what has happened to this house after Frodo’s depart for Valinor? Was it also sold out or was it given to Meriadoc’s family? Seems it would be a extremely impractical to let such pleasant place, where Frodo felt at home right away, just waste away, unoccupied.

Even knowing that Frodo’s stay in this house would be brief, his friends went into a trouble to arrange Frodo’s things in the way it had been in the Bag End , just to add more to Frodo’s pleasant and enjoyable feeling of a familiarity. They even arranged a bath in three bathtubs, which gave a great enjoyment to the company wearied out by the trip.
There was a laughter and splashing, songs and jokes about who will take the bath first:” Eldest first, or quickest first?”, mocking at Pippin :”You will be last either way, Master Peregrin”.
I can feel the merriment of the scene, this is the last peaceful moments of theirs previous carefree hobbit’s life .

At the dinner they are jokingly fighting over the hobbit’s most favorite food -mushrooms, resorting Frodo to give a reason to serve them himself:” They’re mine! Given to me…and I‘ll serve them” . Later in the book we will found a disturbing familiarity of this expression when Frodo and Gollum will be talking about the Ring. I think , at this point Tolkien gives a hint of Frodo’s future amplified possessiveness of the Ring.

After the dinner they discussed the past scary experience. Frodo, feeling guilty for all the trouble his friends went through to make his new home comfortable while he must leave it soon, keeps silent about the whole chase matter. But the observing hobbits came to conclusion that Old Maggot had a very close guess. After that Frodo had to unhappily admit to his friends that he is leaving. And here comes the best part of the chapter in the shiny light revealing the real friendship, I would say, a brotherhood between the hobbits, their willingness to stand by friend “through thick and thin - to the bitter end”.
To Frodo’s astonishment they revealed to him that , what he regarded as a secret, was well known by conspirators. And, as concerned friends, they were aware that something going on and closely watched Frodo for some time , knowing that the “the Ring is no laughing matter” and that they scared, but nevertheless they will try their best to help him.” You cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone…We are your friends, Frodo.”
And this is, ladies and gentlemen, what called the TRUE FRIENDSHIP.



The revelation of his secret lifted a stone from Frodo’s heart and allowed to get to more immediate problem: which way to take to evade the Black Riders. And the only unexpected direction is going into the queery and dangerous Old Forest.
The forest, which is regular hobbits avoiding at all the time, save inquisitive and adventurous Merry and the old farmer Maggot, who shrewd enough and careful enough not to get into troubles over there.

One of Frodo’s friends blithely volunteered to ”play Frodo” for dodging the Riders from the right track, and all of them agreed that it is an excellent plan and, seems, Frodo agreed that it is sound enough.
It shows that even having such terrifying experience they still not fully comprehend of what terrible and deadly evil the Riders are, and being in the safe heaven of Shire the feeling of the danger became dull and kind like distant. Which , of course, was a deplorable mistake.

The night before the journey Frodo saw a premonition dream of being near the sea and seeing the white tower, a foretelling of the end of long journey , which he was about to begin.

P.S. The picture is "Conspiracy" by Carol Emery Phenix.

[Rían]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
An example here being the ruts and vegetation that seem to give way to the right and down, but not to the left and up.

Yeah, that part is rather creepy ... "we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto!"

[Nurvingiel]

Lol Rian.

Nice notes Olmer *impressed*. I think you made some very good observations there, backed up with appropriate quotes.

The bath scene is one that I had wondered about. Is it normal for Hobbits to have three bathtubs in their homes? (Whether holes or countrified houses.) As for the unresolved house issue, I think this is one of those things that the author doesn't have to write about to explain. Frodo is sensible and thoughtful, so he probably gave it to Fatty Bolger (or Merry or someone) upon his return to the Shire, after they sorted our Sharkey and his men.

[Forkbeard]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Lol Rian.

Nice notes Olmer *impressed*. I think you made some very good observations there, backed up with appropriate quotes.

The bath scene is one that I had wondered about. Is it normal for Hobbits to have three bathtubs in their homes? (Whether holes or countrified houses.) As for the unresolved house issue, I think

Well, I'm assuming a home without modern plumbing, since the hobbits seem to be pre-industrial. This means that the bathtubs are 3 large tubs, large enough to hold a hobbit each. I would think most homes would have 3 or 4 such tubs for all sorts of chores besides bathing.

FB

[Nurvingiel]

I'm sure you're right there Forkbeard, good thinking. This means it would take a great deal of effort to heat the water for three separate baths! Probably on ordinary occasions they would take turns in one bath, starting with the cleanest probably.

... the eldest first or the quickest first? Either way you are last Pippin... (or something like that).

[cee2lee2]

I have to confess that the bath song is one of my favorite cozy moments from these early chapters.


Really don't have anything to add to the excellent discussion here. Just wanted to let y'all know that I've been enjoying and learning from everyone's insights.

[Elanor the Fair]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel

The nature of their friendship changes over the course of the book, but at this point, Frodo, Merry and Pippin are good friends.

I frequently ponder on the enigma of Pippin and Frodo being close friends considering the age difference between them. Frodo is an adult hobbit aged 50 and Pippin is in his tweens - 29 or so. This would be quite an age difference for close friendship. Is it because of their kinship or because of the anti-aging properties of the ring? I know it is not uncommon for friendship to span age differences, however, a few years earlier, Pippin would have been a child while Frodo was an adult. I would have thought the relationship between them would have been more like the relationship between Bilbo and Frodo, however, their relationship in the book is more like that of buddies.

[Artanis]

I've thought about this too Elanor. In one of the first chapters it is told that children loved to come to Bag End and listen to Bilbo's stories, and that many of them continued to visit Frodo after Bilbo was gone. I think Frodo, Merry and Pip found together because they were alike in many ways, and different from the other Hobbits, in Hobbiton at least. 20 years is a considerable age difference, but the age difference between Bilbo and Frodo was 78 years, which is quite different.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Olmer

One of Frodo’s friends blithely volunteered to ”play Frodo” for dodging the Riders from the right track, and all of them agreed that it is an excellent plan and, seems, Frodo agreed that it is sound enough.
It shows that even having such terrifying experience they still not fully comprehend of what terrible and deadly evil the Riders are, and being in the safe heaven of Shire the feeling of the danger became dull and kind like distant. Which , of course, was a deplorable mistake.

I think it mainly shows that's the nature of Hobbits and possibly one of the reasons for their typical resilliance to evil. Suppose you live in a quiet, peaceful community like Hobbiton. They have little clue what goes on in the world beyond the Shire. The only things that are remotely scary are stories of the Old Forest and the occasional 'big' ruffian that causes a bit of commotion. Hobbits seem to have developed this marvelous natural trait of thinking 'oh, it won't be that bad; if I don't think about it, it'll go away'. If you tell them something is terrible and deadly they probably don't really believe you.

And untill here in the book you don't yet get the idea that the riders are a terrible and deadly evil. Sure, they're creepy, they have a sinister dress code and little or no manners. Trying to run over Farmer Maggot wasn't very polite of them. But they hadn't gone chopping off heads of Hobbits that crossed their path at night just yet. But with what the Hobbits knew about them then, I doubt they considered a violent break-in by the riders in the Crickhollow-house possible.

Further I don't think Fatty had to 'play' Frodo himself. All he would have to do was to make the house look lived in and occupied. And if visitors came to see Frodo he could say that Frodo was unavailable for the moment because he was taking a nap, doing some important writing or taking a walk in the countryside, something like that. Fatty would be able to keep that up for a reasonable period of time before it came out, long enough to give Frodo time to put enough distance between him and the Shire. Fatty was quite safe in that role, although after the raid on the house I doubt he would have felt that way!