Religious beliefs/Former Frodo and Sam thread

[Gagool the Old]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Frodo and Samwise!!

It seems more like a debate among several Christian denominations. I reckon Tater's a Catholic, and the others Protestant.

Why was the thread named "Frodo and Sam thread continuded"?

[anduin]

Hullo and welcome! This is a continuation of this thread . The title of this thread should have been changed when it was recreated over here.

Tater is not Catholic, but Orthodox Christian. The others I am not sure about.

[Darth Tater]

I reckon Tater's a Catholic

There's one way to get me really pissed off, and you've found it!

[Reverie]

Since I'm new, I have no idea how a thread about Frodo and Sam morphed into this - you guys must've really digressed!

Anyway, I hope I don't get figuatively burned at the stake for treading here (I'm Wiccan). I just wanted to say 'Thank you' to Sakata. He/she is the first person I've seen here that talks about taking joy in religion and not just thowing rules back and forth!
We, as a nation/world, need more of that! Worshipping and religious ceremony should not be seen as a duty or a chore, but as a gift and a grand oppurtunity to participate in the divine, no matter what you believe.

Even though y'all and myself have very different belief systems, I hope everyone rejoyces in thier respective religions. It is my belief that God/Goddess/The Universe...etc. doesn't want duty- bound puppets, but those who of thier own free and sacred will choose divine love. Bright Blessings!

[Darth Tater]

Amen to that Reverie! I wish more ppl would get that religion isn't supposed to be just about the facts and technicalities, but about personal convictions, and ones own connection with God

[noldo]

What was the original Frodo and Sam -thread about?

[Darth Tater]

Frodo and Sam being, well, I believe the originator of the thread put it "gay lovers"

[noldo]

Just the whole idea of the subject then becoming talk about sin and wrongness, makes me want to hurt myself again.

[Miriel Stormrider]

Several interesting points. I am Christian, but I do not belive that all who don't belive in Jesus will go to hell:

" Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me he has truely sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who will reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted"
C.S. Lewis The Last Battle
N.B Tash is an extreme example. I don't mean all other deitys are like him.
Actually, The Last Battle is full of good examples of how salvation works. Ch. 14 - the end.

About faith and works, you'll have to read all of the last bit of James, ch.2, verses 14-26. Some key verses are:

"My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith has no power to save one, has it?"

"You have faith and I have works -- is that it? Show me your faith without works, and I will show you the faith that underlies my works!"

"You must perceive that a person is justified by his works and not by faith alone."

[Miriel Stormrider]

AAAAGGGGH! I Can't belive I did it again! Sorry ya'll. Posted again thinking I was on the last page when I was just on the first. I feel like such an idiot right now.

[Sakata]

Thats okay, I didnt think it out of place when I read it, it was a very thought provoking post as well.

[anduin]

I would have to agree.

Noldo.....you scare me.

[noldo]

Now do I?

[samwise of the shire]

Ephesians 2:8,9 says:By grace have you been saved and that not of yourselfs it is the gift of GOD, NOT of works lest anyone should boast.
If there was another way into heaven then Jesus' blood would have been useless because we'd be able to save ourselves and put ourselves in the possition of being able to brag.
If you said the bible was the second best fantasy book I would call you a fool and I would pity you as I do now.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
Ephesians 2:8,9 says:By grace have you been saved and that not of yourselfs it is the gift of GOD, NOT of works lest anyone should boast.
If there was another way into heaven then Jesus' blood would have been useless because we'd be able to save ourselves and put ourselves in the possition of being able to brag.
If you said the bible was the second best fantasy book I would call you a fool and I would pity you as I do now.

Just answer one question if you or the others that share your perfect Christian and flawless, sinless ways can. What if you're not a Christian? Are you saying that all are damned who are not followers of Christ? Save your pity for yourself. My opinion differing from yours does not make me a fool.

And the judging goes on and on and on and on.......

[Ñólendil]

I count you brave Sister!

Personally, I do not for one actually believe that Jesus died to save our sins, historically. I don't believe I am such a bad person, and that the human Race is so bad that this nice man had to die. Jesus was executed for religious and political reasons. You don't [i]have[i/i] to take the Bible literally. Do you really believe Jesus preached condemnation? Do you really believe he said that you should be angry with those who are different, with those who have different beliefs? I've got this crazy idea he taught love and equality. There are two creation stories, folks, in the same Book. I am a Christian, I believe what the Bible says is True, I accept evolution as the most probably scientific idea of the beginning and I don't take the Bible literally. If you think God will send me to a fiery pit after death -- don't worry -- I'll be sure to tiptoe passed your room in the Heavenly Hotel so as not to shock you. I promiss you, if you don't make friends with peoples of different Faith (or those who claim no Faith), you're missing out.[/religious]

[Mathron]

I agree. I hope a lot more people will follow the message Jesus supposedly gave - of love and kindness towards fellow human beings, than the message that only through dogma and observance can you be saved. I have nothing against that - if people find that, in their heart, their way to salvation, I can only be glad for them. But the idea of kindness and forgiveness are what I hope most people come away believing.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank you Inoldonil. Well said.

Now, I just want to let everyone here know that I was born, raised, and baptized Catholic. I followed a Christian path all of my life. After many years and many changes and many sorrows, I changed in my belief. I believe in a devine presence "God" Do I believe the Bibles version of this? No, not anymore. Why? I am not sure, but I know that as I grew older, I found the Bible to be more confusing then I found it to be a comfort. I became unexcepting of its accounts. I began to explore the science of creation and found it to be a more realistic version. In other words, I had serious religious doubts. This was not an easy thing for me. I did not just wake up one day and say: Gee I don't think I want to believe in Jesus anymore. And btw, I do believe in many of the things Jesus taught. This was a long drawn out painful change. Now, I do not sit here and say that I am right and all of you are wrong. I will say that I don't know that your beliefs are anymore right then mine. I don't know what's out there. And for everyone that is positive and secure with their beliefs of Christianity, that's great. Just understand that it isn't that way for everyone and the whole world does not share your faith. If you spend your life being good and doing good for others, I don't care if you're an Atheist, Heaven is open to you, if it's there. Why should a killer that decided to accept Jesus be admitted more readily then a person that has doubted and has done good all of their life. That in itself doesn't seem right, and if this is the case, then I find the Christian way to be flawed, and Heaven would be imperfect. Also, remember that if a person does not accept the existance of Heaven, then hell is not there either. So if they do not share your faith, they do not fear the punishment of that belief because in their mind, it does not exist. But, to believe the Christian way, and then say others will go to Hell that don't believe that way, is in direct defiance of your own belief and the teachings of Jesus. You do not know what the Almighty has in store for anyone or even for yourself. There are acception to every rule, and if it is the way you believe, then you also know that the Bible says "God is a merciful god and a forgiving god" I have faith that if Heaven exists that anyone can be forgiven, from a murderer clear down to a doubting thomas. If the world is doomed to burn in hell for having religious doubts, then the herreafter is doomed aswell IMO.

[Phelan Kell]

To believe in something because you are afraid of what might happen if you don't belief in something, is no reason to believe in something.

God-fearing. What the f... I'll choose God-loving any day of the week.

I am a Christian....... but the open-minded kind. It seems to me that every day I am becoming more and more outnumbered. I hate to think that people like 'Lurker can share the same religion as me. I do not think that my mother's hairdresser, Greg, is going to hell. He is a very nice man and has done nothing that I am aware of that would give him a "Go directly to hell" card. I respect his decision and I do not judge him for his choice in mates. You might be thinking, Lurker, " How can he not think homosexuals are going to hell if he's read the bible?" The answer is that I do not believe in two parts of it: the book of Romans and the Old Testement. I don't believe in Romans because in the thirteenth chapter it says something along the lines of "God put all government leaders in their positions. To disobey a government leader is to disobey God." Now ask yourself, Lurker, if Bill Clinton was the condidate of choice for God. I think this book was written by a government leader long ago. Read it and try to think about it with an open mind as to what I'm saying. I am a firm believer in evolution. I think God could have starting the million-year-long chain reaction however and whenever the hell he wanted. I do not belief in the Big Bang Theory. It seems way too illogical and just doesn't make sense to my fifteen-year-old mind. Whether you realise it or not, Lurker, when you say that someone is going to hell, whether by your choice or not, you are judging person. Judging is ussueing a judgement. That is what you are doing.

Now please don't reply with a bunch a quotes from the Bible that what you so adamantly preach is true because, frankly, I don't care. I know this will not stop from trying to contridict me, so fire away and know I will give your response as much deep thought as you gave mine.

Sister Golden Hair, I salute you. I have never before found someone whose thoughts so mirrored mine. God bless you, truly.

[Phelan Kell]

And I don't believe in the Old Testament because of the many contridictions. I believe one comes to mind that has already been named in this thread, "God said, 'An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.'" - "Turn the other cheek," said Jesus.