Canadian Politics

[Nurvingiel]

(Whoops, and it did double post. The post you want is below.)

I will use this space for some gratuitous smilies...

[Nurvingiel]

[I submitted this and the thread updated, but my post wasn't there. Sorry if this ends up being a double post.]

Oh yeah, by the way Drgnslyer, because of you I will forever think of Stephen Harper as Stephen "Wetsuit Jr." Harper.

Speaking of Stephen Harper, I'm not irrationally biased against him. It's just that I almost always don't agree with him. (And he just bugs me, but never mind that.)

Ther other day, a reporter asked him, [paraphrase] "What you do if you loved one was ill, and the only way to get them the care they needed was to go to a privat clinic? Would you do it if you could afford it?"

Harper said that he would. This caused a lot of controversy and discussions about a two-tiered health care system.

However, I'd do the exact same thing if I had to. If my loved one was seriously ill, I'd take them to the United States and pay for care there if I had to. I'd do whatever I could to help them whether I could afford it or not. I agree with Harper here.

In the ensuing discussions, other candidates said they too would pay for care for their loved one. However, I don't necessarily support a two-tiered system. (Harper doesn't necessarily support a two-tiered system - he didn't say either way on that one.)

I liked NDP leader Jack Layton's response the best. He said we should look at our current system [critically, I assume], but we don't want to have a system like the USA.

I think we should very critically examine our system. We should go over it carefully with a fine-toothed comb. Most importantly, we should copy France. What makes their system so awesome, and how can we emulate it? France spends $2700 per person in their health care system and it's ranked the best in the world (by, I believe, the World Health Organisation). We spend $2900 per person, and we're ranked 30th.

We need to find out what France does, and start doing it (wherever possible)!

What do you guys think about our current health care system? I think this will be a big issue in the election (it usually is).

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

WOW you guys write a lot!!! well im too young to vote since im only 15, but i think that i would actually vote for the green party because they actually care for the enviroment not to mention they offer education and so much more, but hey give me your opinion on the green party! i would like to know what you guys think about the green party * nuges Nurvi and say you brought me here so are you happy?* lol nurvi now you have my feedback

[rohirrim TR]

so y'all Canadians, can you enlighten me on Canada's politics? are they haveing an election or something right now? why isn't it on the news?

[Nurvingiel]

Welcome to the thread Tamuril Sirfalas and RohirrimTR! Yes, I did kind of make Tamuril post here, because she's Canadian! I especially want the feedback of other Canadians, but I really appreciate everyone's participation here.

Interesting that you would vote Green Tamuril. Originally, I had ruled them out over their forestry policies, but then I found out that wasn't part of their official platform, so they're back in the game.

As you mention, they do have ideas about education and other issues. I remember education from the last election. Irritatingly, I can't find the official platform. You wouldn't happen to have a copy or link would you? The Green Party is really shaping up as a viable option rather than a fringe party (even though I would vote for a fringe party too if I agreed with them). They just need to fix their @$&*# website.


RohirrimTR... you ask quite the complex question. This thread actually says a lot about Canadian politics. (I know, I know, tl;dr [too long; didn't read]. )

The big issues are usually health care, education, and the economy, not necessarily in that order. In the last two elections, gay marriage has also been a big issue, as well as the Sponsorship Scandal. The environment is also an issue, plus one or two I'm sure I forgot.

The Conservative Party represents people who do not want gay marriage. (They do this badly though, see post #11.) I can objectively say this argument is doomed in Canada, but people who aren't cool with gay marriage deserve to have someone represent them without misleading promises.

I actually don't know what else the new Conservative party stands for. This party is actually a merger of the Reform Party (all-around conservative) and the Progressive Conservatives (fiscally conservative, socially liberal).

Their leader Stephen Harper has promised to cut the GST (goods and services tax) from 7% to 5% if elected. I believe they support lower taxes. They might be cautiously entertaining the idea of suggesting a two-tiered health-care system, but aren't saying so because they don't want to risk getting slaughtered. (The latter is a theory on my part. I don't have evidence on that.)

I don't know where the Bloc Québécois stands on gay marriage, but they only run in Québec anyway. They used to be a sepratist party, but now most Québecers have no desire to separate. In an attempt to win seats I'm sure they've branched out their policies. Ten years ago they were very strong, and formed the Official Opposition (the party who wins the second highest amount of seats gets this spot). This role is now filled by the Conservatives.

The NDP (New Democrat Party) is for gay marriage, fairly left of centre, strongly in support of a one-tiered health-care system, usually supported by the unions, except the CAW (Canadian Autoworkers um union? Maybe I got the acronym wrong) who threw their support behind the Liberals. The NDP used to have about four seats, now they have about fourty. They're really doing well, and I think they'll do even better this election.

We have the Green Party, who enjoy support across the country, but not enough to win a seat. Even their well-spoken leader Jim Harris didn't win his seat. I hope he does this time around, but it would mean he'd have to beat candidates from the other, stronger parties. A long shot, but worth hoping for. The Green Party has also gained a lot of support in the past few years.

The Liberals have formed the government for I believe 17 straight years now. They are generally good for the economy, fairly central, they passed the gay marriage law, and are all-around competent. Except for the hideously damaging and embarassing Sponsorship Scandal (see the beginning of post #10) seriously hurt them. It was about two years ago now, but Canadians are still justifiably mad.

edited to add: Under the Liberals, we got rid of our huge national debt (it exists, but it's much less huge). They also promised to cut income tax.

This brings us to why I think the Green Party and the NDP are gaining support. People are mad at the Liberals about the scandal, but many don't trust the Conservatives (myself included). The NDP and the Greens both have classy, well-spoken leaders who avoid mudslinging. I believe Canadians appreciate an abscence of mudslinging more than some politicians realise.

So there you have it. Our current politics in a nutshell. Fellow Canucks, if I left something out, please point out my oversight.

edited again to add: I didn't get CAW wrong, it's Canadian Auto Workers (union). Yeah.

[rohirrim TR]

so, for canada pretty much the biggest issues are gay marriage and taxes?

thats weird the "green" party is actually an option.
here in the states the green party is pretty much a joke (no offense to those of you who voted for Nader)

[inked]

A view from Canada ... and it's not pretty!

http://thelastamazon.blogspot.com/20...-pharisee.html

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by inked

A view from Canada ... and it's not pretty!

http://thelastamazon.blogspot.com/20...-pharisee.html

Are we looking south? *rimshot* Just kidding.

Paul Martin had a good idea not to put the election during a holiday. Then he made it during Lent. Oops!

(When is Lent anyway? ) IIRC about 16 million Canadians are Catholic. That's about half the country.

Originally Posted by rohirrimTR

so, for canada pretty much the biggest issues are gay marriage and taxes?

thats weird the "green" party is actually an option.
here in the states the green party is pretty much a joke (no offense to those of you who voted for Nader)

It's too bad the American Green Party is not a serious party. I think one important difference is a two-party system would make it harder for fringe parties to become established as good alternatives.

Actually, I was wrong about the major issues. According to a poll by the National Post, health care is the most important issue to Canadians according to 29% of those polled. Corruption was 12%. (This is less of a big deal than I thought it would be. This means the Liberals might make a comeback and win a majority government.) After those two issues, there were no major issues.

Even if it's not a major issue (it might become one) there is a lot of debate right now in the Post over child care plans. The Liberals and the Conservatives both have plans that are fairly different from each other.

[Nurvingiel]

Post to update thread.

[rohirrim TR]

OK, so its health care, and corruption (big surprise there typical politics),

so, whats up with health care, i always hear about canadien pharmacies being cheaper and stuff.

[Nurvingiel]

Yeah, health care is always a big issue for us. Corruption, though second largest, only had 12% of people saying it was the #1 issue, so I guess people don't care overmuch.

I realise I fall into the same category. The scandal is something I consider, but I care about other factors more. Why are the Liberals making it so hard to vote for them? They proposed a gun control plan that would ban handguns (this is in response to gun violence in Toronto) except for target shooters and gun collectors. But the aforementioned people already have registered guns anyway. This plan isn't really going to do much so I don't see the point. This is sad since I am 100% in favour of strict gun control.

As for Canadian pharmacies being cheaper, I believee this is generally true. I don't really know why, I'd guess because our public health-care system is completely public. For Canadians, our health insurance pays for a lot of prescription medication, but I don't know how that would make it cheaper for Americans.

[rohirrim TR]

sounds like canadians need to start selling t-shirts and bumber stickers that say: "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

so what kind of health care problems are there? I figured canada would be one of the best tecnologically speaking.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by rohirrim TR

sounds like canadians need to start selling t-shirts and bumber stickers that say: "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

so what kind of health care problems are there? I figured canada would be one of the best tecnologically speaking.

I'll counter that with a T-shirt that says, "The best way to have less guns is to have less guns."

Technologically, we do have a great health-care system. We have well-trained, compentent nurses, doctors, anasthesiologists, etc. Our facilities are great. I think our problem is with organisation and administration. We do not have enough professionals to treat patients on the waiting lists. Operating rooms are closed when there are people waiting who need them.

More funding may be necessary, but France spends less than us and they apparently have a great system. There are obvious differences between our two countries, but I'm sure there's something we can learn from them. I don't really know what the problem is exactly though.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

As for Canadian pharmacies being cheaper, I believee this is generally true. I don't really know why, I'd guess because our public health-care system is completely public. For Canadians, our health insurance pays for a lot of prescription medication, but I don't know how that would make it cheaper for Americans.

You are asking the question the wrong way round. It is not that Canadian pharmacies are cheaper, it is that American ones are more expensive. Drug companies vastly over-inflate prices into the US system, and can do so because of the way it is structured. Insurers just pass these costs onto premiums, so everybody wins. (Except patients, of course.) Canada's (province-based, universal coverage) system means that the health system has a very strong incentive, and massive buying power, to bargain the prices down.

And Dubya wants to legislate to prevent people from circumventing this cartel. (He may already have done so.)

Some comparative statistics: total amount (percentage) of per capita GDP spent on health care per year:
Canada $2,792 (9.7%)
France $2,561 (9.5%)
UK $1,992 (7.6%)
USA $4,887 (13.9%)

(OECD 2001)

France are generally considered to have the best health system in the world in terms of value for money.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

You are asking the question the wrong way round. It is not that Canadian pharmacies are cheaper, it is that American ones are more expensive. Drug companies vastly over-inflate prices into the US system, and can do so because of the way it is structured. Insurers just pass these costs onto premiums, so everybody wins. (Except patients, of course.) Canada's (province-based, universal coverage) system means that the health system has a very strong incentive, and massive buying power, to bargain the prices down.

And Dubya wants to legislate to prevent people from circumventing this cartel. (He may already have done so.)

Wow, I did not know you could even do that! <- I'm really showing my Canadian colours there.

But of course you could inflate the price of drugs, just like any other consumable good. But how can he prevent people from buying their drugs elsewhere? After all, they are a consumable good and Americans can shop across the border if they wish.

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Some comparative statistics: total amount (percentage) of per capita GDP spent on health care per year:
Canada $2,792 (9.7%)
France $2,561 (9.5%)
UK $1,992 (7.6%)
USA $4,887 (13.9%)

(OECD 2001)

France are generally considered to have the best health system in the world in terms of value for money.

France really does get a bang for their buck. The Nurvingiel Party of Canada proposes we find out how.

[The Gaffer]

Don't know how, but he was making noises a few months ago about the "dangers" of buying medicines from outside the US. Mostly being the danger this his pharma buddies wouldn't be able to buy another gold-plated yacht.

Not sure how it works in France, but one of the principles of their system is that the patient has to pay something at the time of treatment (except for certain chronic and serious conditions). Personally, that would put me off, but the UK is trying to mimic the way they structure patient choice (i.e. you choose where you go for treatment) at the moment. With disastrous consequences it seems.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Don't know how, but he was making noises a few months ago about the "dangers" of buying medicines from outside the US. Mostly being the danger this his pharma buddies wouldn't be able to buy another gold-plated yacht.

Hehe, burn.

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Not sure how it works in France, but one of the principles of their system is that the patient has to pay something at the time of treatment (except for certain chronic and serious conditions). Personally, that would put me off, but the UK is trying to mimic the way they structure patient choice (i.e. you choose where you go for treatment) at the moment. With disastrous consequences it seems.

Sometimes you have to pay a bit here too. I'm not entirely sure which cases you have to pay.

You do have to pay for part of an eye exam, but you don't have to pay to go to the emergency room. If your doctor refers you to a specialist I don't think you have to pay either.

I'd be scared to go to the emergency room if you had to pay. I would go, but I imagine some people don't if they couldn't afford it. Aren't there county hospitals in the USA that are free though?

[Earniel]

Nurv, I just got curious about this. Is the seal hunt mentioned anywhere in the different political agendas of the politcal parties or is it not an issue at all?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

You are asking the question the wrong way round. It is not that Canadian pharmacies are cheaper, it is that American ones are more expensive. Drug companies vastly over-inflate prices into the US system, and can do so because of the way it is structured.

I would like to add one thing - drug companies are scared pantless (just came from the Pants game in the new CS Lewis forum!) about lawsuits. Americans (well, not all, but enough) are crazy about lawsuits And that adds a heckuva lot of cost onto the drugs

[The Gaffer]

Good point. How much do you reckon that adds to their costs?