Arwen in the Movie, How did you feel about her? - Page 2

bropous · 01-05-2002, 11:38 AM

"...the more they develop Arwen, the more they are developing Aragorn. the whole idea is a narrative device to make Aragorn motifs more understandable"

Great point there, FM, I hadn't even considered that angle. I think that works in very well, and makes a lot of sense to me. Good call!

Caran, do you recall from the books when they heard Glorfindel coming up the Road between Amon Sul and the Bruinen, they hid but then heard the tinkling of bells on the harness of Asfaloth? Also, recall this quote:

'You shall ride my horse,' said Glorfindel. 'I will shorten the stirrups up to the saddle-skirts...'.

Elves gots saddles!

CaranIstar · 01-05-2002, 11:44 AM

That must have slipped my mind, I havent read the book in a few days or so.... but I still think that Glorfindel's saddle was for passengers he might have to pick up. I believe there was a bit in the book with Peregrin asking Gandalf about why/how he rode Elf-fashion on Shadowfax, which was sans saddle.

Pailan · 01-05-2002, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anduin
It still kills me though that when ever I see her being interviewed either in a mag or on TV, she (or the article) always mentions that she can speak Elvish....like she can speak it fluently, when actually she is just quoting lines of dialogue.

Fluently or not I still turn to butter when she talks like that. More, More I must have more! Perhaps I am being a tad obsessive.

***Fat middle*** · 01-05-2002, 01:02 PM

Gandalf riding Shadowfax without saddle hasn't anything to do with elfs way to ride, but with Shadowfax spirit: Gandalf tells that "he would never admitt a saddle" or something like that.

is Legolas who explains that elves don't ride with saddles

liza disavino · 01-05-2002, 04:11 PM

I too was unhappywith Liv Tyler's casting when I first heard about it. I found that she did a better job that I expected, but I thought her part was overpadded. Most unfortunate was Arwen robbing Frodo of his big moment at the river ("By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring, nor me!") whick makes it seem like he's unable to resist the Nazgul at every turn. (How the heck will this weak-willed guy ever make it to Mordor?). I thought the romance between her and Aragorn should have been more drawn out than Tolkein had it, so I was okay with that, but I can't help wondering if Liv Tyler's agent forced Peter Jackson into making her into Super Elf. There were a host of other ways that her personal strengths could have been shown without robbing Frodo of his moment of valor.

Ñólendil · 01-05-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

It still kills me though that when ever I see her being interviewed either in a mag or on TV, she (or the article) always mentions that she can speak Elvish....like she can speak it fluently, when actually she is just quoting lines of dialogue.

True, but I don't think anyone can speak an Elvish language fluently. There's not enough known vocab..

ladeeda · 01-05-2002, 05:39 PM

I thought that having HER-in Glorfendel's(don't know how to spell it)place is just totally wrong.I completely agree with you.She had no reason to be in this movie.

jerseydevil · 01-06-2002, 11:52 PM

I didn't have a problem with Arwen - other than the Flight to the Ford scene. I think she took one of Frodo's best parts when he attempts to defy the Nazgul.

I figured that she was going to take Glorfindel's part - but I thought that the scene would play out the same. I thought her "If you want him - come and claim him" line was also lame.

Also she wasn't in as much of the movie as the advertising and puplicity seemed to make it. As far as the Fellowship of the Ring - she's still a minor character. That may change in Two Towers and Return of the King, but like others I hope she isn't made into Xena Warrior Elf in the later films.

HOBBIT - like Anduin - I know you think Arwen was more than "pretty good". Anduin, are those wedding bells we hear for HOBBIT and Arwen???

Kevin McIntyre · 01-07-2002, 12:05 AM

Liv Tyler has called it a minor role, she should know.

bropous · 01-07-2002, 01:14 AM

The Bakshi film had the scene at the Frod, and Glorfindel, correct. If there is an active copyright on the screenplay from the Bakshi film, then the scene at the Ford of Bruinen HAD to be re-written, along with many other scenes which Bakshi got "right" and yet Mr. Jackson did not. This seems to me to be the best reason that so many lines were missing from the film, or given to other characters.

jerseydevil · 01-07-2002, 01:26 AM

bropous: I'll forgive that then if that's the case. It does bother me every single time I see the film though.

It may be the fact that I don't understand completely how the movie rights get sold and who owns what rights. To me - if it's in the book then the book's copyright holder still holds the rights and could still allow anyone to do anything they want. From my understanding, Tolkien's family still retained all rights over the LOTR material - which would not have forced Jackson to make sacrifices because of what was done in the cartoon. But like I said - I may just not understand all the rules with copyrighting.

bropous · 01-07-2002, 01:56 AM

Ah, but jerseydevil, the Tolkien family HATES the idea that the film version was being made, them being still p.o.'ed that J.R.R. sold the film rights to LOTR in 1968 for $14,000.00. Yup, fourteen thousand bucks. They don't make jack off the films [but they are bloody well going to make millions upon millions in increased book sales], and they have done all they can to stand in the way of anyone making a good film of the books.

But I do feel that the Bakshi film, using all the best quotes and scenes, was an obstacle to making the Jackson film more true to the language of the books because of copyright problems. A screenplay can be copyrighted independent of a book, even if quotes are used, and no one can use those copyrighted lines without release of that copyright. Bakshi has petulantly said that no one consulted him on the Jackson film. That may very well point out part of the problem.

Also, a little known fact: When the film rights were sold in 1968, one of the first attempts to bring the books to the screen began, but using THE BEATLES in the film! George Harrison was pegged to play Gandalf. I forget who the other three were to play. Pretty much "Yellow Submarine" meets "Lord of the Rings". I, for one, am tremendously relieved that the film never got off the ground.

And, recall that Christopher Tolkien will not speak to his son or his grandson, and has not done so for three years, because he is p.o.'ed that they supported the making of Peter Jackson's film. How sad for that family. Life is too damn short to carry a grudge like that. I know "Ronald" [J.R.R.] would never approve of Christopher doing that.

jerseydevil · 01-07-2002, 02:19 AM

yeah - I know about the strife in the family and how Christopher Tolkien didn't want the film made. I just thought the "Tolkien Corportation" could still allow others to use any part of the book they wished.

You make a good argument - so even though I can't stand the Flight to the Ford scene - I may be able to accept it a little more.

Like I said - I don't have a problem with Arwen - just this scene. And Jackson could have still have stayed true to the scene by at least keeping Frodo fighting against the nazgul until the last. So I will probably always hate this scene of the movie - even though it is one of my favorite in the book.

The points you made make me wish that that cartoon was never made - even though I do have it on DVD.

bropous · 01-07-2002, 11:25 AM

Honestly, jerseydevil, I wish to Hannah that they would have been able, for whatever reason, to leave the scene at the Ford of Bruinen exactly as Tolkien had written it.

KGamgee · 01-07-2002, 02:20 PM

I was okay with Arwen, the scenes with Aragorn were nice and all. But, I liked Glorifindel, and Arwens cheesy little come and claim him line was not the movies best moment. I am okay with Arwen the character, but not the part at the ford. Besides that she was fine.

XRogue · 01-07-2002, 03:22 PM

I don't like the flood being called up by Arwen, nor the Come and claim him bit. Frodo needed that bit of defiance, it's part of his develprment. Other than that, putting Arwen more forward was a good idea. Otherwise, 2 years from now, all the "guests" at the wedding will be saying "Who in Middle Earth is that chick? And why is Aragorn not being married to Eowyn? " etc.

Laurelyn · 01-20-2002, 09:38 PM

I was ticked at the Arwen thing because it cuts Frodo's line, "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" I liked that line a lot and I thought it developed Frodo's character by showing his willpower and resistance to the ring.

By the way, Lelondul and everybody else who's wondering about what she says in Elvish, it's "nîn o Hitaeglir lasto beth daer rhimmo nin Bruinen dan in ulair," which means, "Waters from Misty Mountains, listen to my words of might, flow torrentially for me, Bruinen, against the ringwraiths!"

Billadillo · 01-21-2002, 02:13 PM

Ok, I usually try to keep things pretty friendly, but I swear, if I hear one more person drool over Liv Tyler speaking elvish, I'm gonna sick up on my keyboard!! >:O~~~

I think what they did with her in the movie is downright shameful! In her 5 min. of screen time, she manages to take something away from almost every major character in the story! And it's even worse that some people with "Beavis & Butthead" mentalities are supporting it...

"uh huh, huh huh...dude, she's like...hot"
"yeah! yeah! hehe...chicks with swords are cool!"
"you can speak elvish to me antime baby...uh huh, huh huh huh huh"

Now, before I start a flame war, let me say that I support the idea of developing her character more. She has such a minor part in the books, most people would be confused when she reappears in ROTK. I thought the scene with her at the waterfall was great, showing her as a motivating force for alot of Aragorn's actions.

But sneaking up on him in the woods? Staring down the Nazgul? Calling the flood? It's just too much. They way they changed her character, she just doesn't fit in the story anymore. If she's out running around in the woods, searching for Aragorn with Ringwraiths about, why wouldn't she accompany the Fellowship?

Anyway, I don't care if she speaks elvish or Yiddish, she still gets on my nerves.

jerseydevil · 01-21-2002, 02:29 PM

I agree with you. In the books, in Rivendell Bilbo mentions her to Aragorn - so extending her screen time there was fine. Even having her take Glorfindel's place wasn't that major - but the whole Arwen at the ford thing was way over the top. She majorly weakened Frodo's and Aragorn's characters in my eyes.

hiku747 · 01-21-2002, 02:53 PM

personally, i thought that they were just itching to get liv tyler's famous american face on the screen. i really hated the part when she rode with frodo away from the black riders. it was okay that arwen was there in place of glorofindel, but the fact that frodo couldn't ride himself detracted from his ability to resist the ring. that was the main point of it, frodo was strong enough to resist the ring to get to the ford, and tell the nazguls to go back. liv tyler saving him and calling up her father's river was just rotten.

01-05-2002, 11:38 AM	#21
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	"...the more they develop Arwen, the more they are developing Aragorn. the whole idea is a narrative device to make Aragorn motifs more understandable" Great point there, FM, I hadn't even considered that angle. I think that works in very well, and makes a lot of sense to me. Good call! Caran, do you recall from the books when they heard Glorfindel coming up the Road between Amon Sul and the Bruinen, they hid but then heard the tinkling of bells on the harness of Asfaloth? Also, recall this quote: 'You shall ride my horse,' said Glorfindel. 'I will shorten the stirrups up to the saddle-skirts...'. Elves gots saddles! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-05-2002, 01:02 PM	#24
*Fat middle* Mootis per forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Spain Posts: 61,439	Gandalf riding Shadowfax without saddle hasn't anything to do with elfs way to ride, but with Shadowfax spirit: Gandalf tells that "he would never admitt a saddle" or something like that. is Legolas who explains that elves don't ride with saddles __________________ Do not be hasty. That is my motto. Now we'll have a drink and go to the Entmoot.

01-06-2002, 11:52 PM	#28
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I didn't have a problem with Arwen - other than the Flight to the Ford scene. I think she took one of Frodo's best parts when he attempts to defy the Nazgul. I figured that she was going to take Glorfindel's part - but I thought that the scene would play out the same. I thought her "If you want him - come and claim him" line was also lame. Also she wasn't in as much of the movie as the advertising and puplicity seemed to make it. As far as the Fellowship of the Ring - she's still a minor character. That may change in Two Towers and Return of the King, but like others I hope she isn't made into Xena Warrior Elf in the later films. HOBBIT - like Anduin - I know you think Arwen was more than "pretty good". Anduin, are those wedding bells we hear for HOBBIT and Arwen??? __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-06-2002 at 11:57 PM.

01-07-2002, 01:14 AM	#30
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	The Bakshi film had the scene at the Frod, and Glorfindel, correct. If there is an active copyright on the screenplay from the Bakshi film, then the scene at the Ford of Bruinen HAD to be re-written, along with many other scenes which Bakshi got "right" and yet Mr. Jackson did not. This seems to me to be the best reason that so many lines were missing from the film, or given to other characters. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-07-2002, 01:26 AM	#31
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	bropous: I'll forgive that then if that's the case. It does bother me every single time I see the film though. It may be the fact that I don't understand completely how the movie rights get sold and who owns what rights. To me - if it's in the book then the book's copyright holder still holds the rights and could still allow anyone to do anything they want. From my understanding, Tolkien's family still retained all rights over the LOTR material - which would not have forced Jackson to make sacrifices because of what was done in the cartoon. But like I said - I may just not understand all the rules with copyrighting. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-07-2002 at 01:28 AM.

01-05-2002, 11:44 AM	#22
CaranIstar Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 32	That must have slipped my mind, I havent read the book in a few days or so.... but I still think that Glorfindel's saddle was for passengers he might have to pick up. I believe there was a bit in the book with Peregrin asking Gandalf about why/how he rode Elf-fashion on Shadowfax, which was sans saddle.

01-05-2002, 04:11 PM	#25
liza disavino Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: joisey Posts: 8	I too was unhappywith Liv Tyler's casting when I first heard about it. I found that she did a better job that I expected, but I thought her part was overpadded. Most unfortunate was Arwen robbing Frodo of his big moment at the river ("By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring, nor me!") whick makes it seem like he's unable to resist the Nazgul at every turn. (How the heck will this weak-willed guy ever make it to Mordor?). I thought the romance between her and Aragorn should have been more drawn out than Tolkein had it, so I was okay with that, but I can't help wondering if Liv Tyler's agent forced Peter Jackson into making her into Super Elf. There were a host of other ways that her personal strengths could have been shown without robbing Frodo of his moment of valor.

01-05-2002, 05:39 PM	#27
ladeeda Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: U.S.A,Colorado Posts: 1	I thought that having HER-in Glorfendel's(don't know how to spell it)place is just totally wrong.I completely agree with you.She had no reason to be in this movie.

01-07-2002, 12:05 AM	#29
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	Liv Tyler has called it a minor role, she should know.

01-07-2002, 01:56 AM	#32
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Ah, but jerseydevil, the Tolkien family HATES the idea that the film version was being made, them being still p.o.'ed that J.R.R. sold the film rights to LOTR in 1968 for $14,000.00. Yup, fourteen thousand bucks. They don't make jack off the films [but they are bloody well going to make millions upon millions in increased book sales], and they have done all they can to stand in the way of anyone making a good film of the books. But I do feel that the Bakshi film, using all the best quotes and scenes, was an obstacle to making the Jackson film more true to the language of the books because of copyright problems. A screenplay can be copyrighted independent of a book, even if quotes are used, and no one can use those copyrighted lines without release of that copyright. Bakshi has petulantly said that no one consulted him on the Jackson film. That may very well point out part of the problem. Also, a little known fact: When the film rights were sold in 1968, one of the first attempts to bring the books to the screen began, but using THE BEATLES in the film! George Harrison was pegged to play Gandalf. I forget who the other three were to play. Pretty much "Yellow Submarine" meets "Lord of the Rings". I, for one, am tremendously relieved that the film never got off the ground. And, recall that Christopher Tolkien will not speak to his son or his grandson, and has not done so for three years, because he is p.o.'ed that they supported the making of Peter Jackson's film. How sad for that family. Life is too damn short to carry a grudge like that. I know "Ronald" [J.R.R.] would never approve of Christopher doing that. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-07-2002, 02:19 AM	#33
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	yeah - I know about the strife in the family and how Christopher Tolkien didn't want the film made. I just thought the "Tolkien Corportation" could still allow others to use any part of the book they wished. You make a good argument - so even though I can't stand the Flight to the Ford scene - I may be able to accept it a little more. Like I said - I don't have a problem with Arwen - just this scene. And Jackson could have still have stayed true to the scene by at least keeping Frodo fighting against the nazgul until the last. So I will probably always hate this scene of the movie - even though it is one of my favorite in the book. The points you made make me wish that that cartoon was never made - even though I do have it on DVD. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-07-2002, 11:25 AM	#34
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Honestly, jerseydevil, I wish to Hannah that they would have been able, for whatever reason, to leave the scene at the Ford of Bruinen exactly as Tolkien had written it. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-07-2002, 02:20 PM	#35
KGamgee Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 103	I was okay with Arwen, the scenes with Aragorn were nice and all. But, I liked Glorifindel, and Arwens cheesy little come and claim him line was not the movies best moment. I am okay with Arwen the character, but not the part at the ford. Besides that she was fine.

01-07-2002, 03:22 PM	#36
XRogue Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2000 Location: D/FW Texas, USA Posts: 345	I don't like the flood being called up by Arwen, nor the Come and claim him bit. Frodo needed that bit of defiance, it's part of his develprment. Other than that, putting Arwen more forward was a good idea. Otherwise, 2 years from now, all the "guests" at the wedding will be saying "Who in Middle Earth is that chick? And why is Aragorn not being married to Eowyn? " etc. __________________ Farewell wherever you fare, till your Eyries recieve you at the journey's end.

01-20-2002, 09:38 PM	#37
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	I was ticked at the Arwen thing because it cuts Frodo's line, "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" I liked that line a lot and I thought it developed Frodo's character by showing his willpower and resistance to the ring. By the way, Lelondul and everybody else who's wondering about what she says in Elvish, it's "nîn o Hitaeglir lasto beth daer rhimmo nin Bruinen dan in ulair," which means, "Waters from Misty Mountains, listen to my words of might, flow torrentially for me, Bruinen, against the ringwraiths!" __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

01-21-2002, 02:13 PM	#38
Billadillo Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 23	Ok, I usually try to keep things pretty friendly, but I swear, if I hear one more person drool over Liv Tyler speaking elvish, I'm gonna sick up on my keyboard!! >:O~~~ I think what they did with her in the movie is downright shameful! In her 5 min. of screen time, she manages to take something away from almost every major character in the story! And it's even worse that some people with "Beavis & Butthead" mentalities are supporting it... "uh huh, huh huh...dude, she's like...hot" "yeah! yeah! hehe...chicks with swords are cool!" "you can speak elvish to me antime baby...uh huh, huh huh huh huh" Now, before I start a flame war, let me say that I support the idea of developing her character more. She has such a minor part in the books, most people would be confused when she reappears in ROTK. I thought the scene with her at the waterfall was great, showing her as a motivating force for alot of Aragorn's actions. But sneaking up on him in the woods? Staring down the Nazgul? Calling the flood? It's just too much. They way they changed her character, she just doesn't fit in the story anymore. If she's out running around in the woods, searching for Aragorn with Ringwraiths about, why wouldn't she accompany the Fellowship? Anyway, I don't care if she speaks elvish or Yiddish, she still gets on my nerves. __________________ What has it got in it's pocketsess?

01-21-2002, 02:29 PM	#39
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I agree with you. In the books, in Rivendell Bilbo mentions her to Aragorn - so extending her screen time there was fine. Even having her take Glorfindel's place wasn't that major - but the whole Arwen at the ford thing was way over the top. She majorly weakened Frodo's and Aragorn's characters in my eyes. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-21-2002, 02:53 PM	#40
hiku747 Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ghetto minetto, ny Posts: 29	personally, i thought that they were just itching to get liv tyler's famous american face on the screen. i really hated the part when she rode with frodo away from the black riders. it was okay that arwen was there in place of glorofindel, but the fact that frodo couldn't ride himself detracted from his ability to resist the ring. that was the main point of it, frodo was strong enough to resist the ring to get to the ford, and tell the nazguls to go back. liv tyler saving him and calling up her father's river was just rotten. __________________ What we do in life echoes in eternity

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