Phillip Pulman? - Page 2

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-12-2002, 11:41 PM

Really, FF? I hated the ending!!! Yet at the same time, it was good, and I liked it. It worked, anyway. It was bittersweet, like The Grey Havens in RotK. Except I found that even sadder. . .

Does anyone else *know* what there daemon is/would be? (I used to be almost as obsessed with these books as I am with Tolkien's books now. . .almost. That was four years ago, though, and since then the last one has arrived.)
My daemon (Luvaskatet) is a crow or a raven. I can't figure it out between those two. At least it's the same taxanomical family. . .

FrodoFriend · 03-13-2002, 12:14 AM

Yeah, I hated the ending too! Then I read it again and again and again and again and again . . . and I still hate it! But I love it too. It's perfect, and horrible, and beautiful. And yes, I thought it was sadder than the Grey Havens too.

I always thought a daemon was a part of your soul that is visible from outside. Never thought what mine would be though. Maybe a bear . . . but I guess that's too big. I'll have to think about it.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-13-2002, 12:31 AM

Actually, I wasn't clear, I'm afraid. . .I thought The Grey Havens were sadder. I thought so because it is not just a few individuals for which there is bitter sadness, but quite a few, yet at the same time there are also happy things. It's wierd, but it's what I thought.

As for daemons, when I was in eighth grade, I was so crazy about His Dark Materials, I decided that I did indeed have a daemon, and I came up with a name for him and everything. I always wanted to know what mine would fix as, and two years later (a little late, I know) I knew that my deamon was a crow or a raven. I, unfortunately, have only read Amber Spyglass once, but I must read it again, and soon! (After The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, hoME, and anything else I can get my greedy little hands (eyes, rather) on.)

Alethes · 03-17-2002, 11:37 PM

I've read the trilogy.
I don't know if I should put a spoiler warning or not, so just in case,
SPOILERS
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I loved the first book, and thought it was very well written. The second book seemed to be hinting at ideas about God, angels, etc. that I disagreed with. I didn't like the last book at all. Pullman took a fascinating trilogy and used it as a soapbox to proclaim completely erroneous views about God. It ruined the trilogy.

I didn't really understand the serpent/Eve Biblical parallels, either.

FrodoFriend · 03-18-2002, 12:42 AM

Really? The second one's my favorite! I loved the religious stuff. It's a fascinating viewpoint. I liked the Bible parallels originally, but PP kind of didn't elaborate on them in the third book, and it was a bit confusing.

Tanoliel · 03-18-2002, 01:16 AM

Gahh! I love these books!

Yeah, Eruviel, we were totally obsessed...heh. My daemon's name is Katzin, and he is a red fox. Heehee...
I was dissapointed at the ending, too...I wanted more! Also, it seemed a little "fatalistic" if you know what I mean...like "this is the way it must be and so there, too bad you can't change anything." Which really annoyed me. I liked the religion stuff, too...ya see, I'm not really a Christian or anything (don't ask me....I haven't the foggiest idea what I am), so i really enjoy reading about that kinda stuff. It did seem a little soapboxy, though....but since it was in such an interesting story, I don't really mind!

Still....MY bible is LotR...

(and the Silmarillion, of course!)
-tano

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-18-2002, 04:31 AM

Yeah, I kinda liked the religious stuff. But toward the middle of Amber Spyglass, I found it to be a little annoying and far from the beginning of the trilogy. I guess I like the first two better.

Strangely enough (or not so strangely), I too consider Silmarillion to be my bible...I've even started referring to it as "The Bible" occasionally. Just to myself and Tano

Elfhelm · 04-09-2002, 08:25 PM

So did I make a mistake by getting it for my 16 year old daughter? She's wiccan. Will she be upset by it?

cee2lee2 · 04-09-2002, 08:33 PM

I don't think anyone confident in their faith will be upset by the books. They are just stories and one man's opinions after all. I speak as a Christian who didn't particularly care for/agree with all of his views, but I found the books to be an excellent read.

FrodoFriend · 04-10-2002, 01:01 AM

I thought the metaphysical ideas were very interesting and quite well thought out.

TwirlingString · 04-14-2002, 05:59 PM

So did I!

I knew it had to be, but that didn;t keep me from walking around saying evil under my breath for the week after.

Tanoliel · 04-15-2002, 12:33 AM

Did you mean "had to be" as in the ending, TwirlingString? (btw, I like your name!). I suppose...but like I said, it was a bit fatalistic. My friend and I wrote a letter to PP (which never actually got sent, oh well) about all the different options he could have done for the ending. Can't think of any now. Sorry. I'll post some if I do...
-tano

TwirlingString · 04-15-2002, 01:25 PM

Yes, I meant the ending. But it drove me crazy that he'd manuvered the ending just so. There really was no way out anyway, this just kept them from having to choose between thier worlds. Do you think they'll meet again in the afterlife?

Tanoliel · 04-17-2002, 12:20 AM

mmmm...one would hope so. I really hate it when people end books like that. I want to say that I wish he would write more, another book, short story, etc, but in a way I know that it would sorta ruin the ending. *sigh* GRRRRARGH. hiss.

-tano

TwirlingString · 04-17-2002, 01:11 PM

I know exactly what you mean. But with the way he ended the story, I'm much happier to reveiw their next meeting in my imagination. (Finally, a thread I didn't mess up!)

whiteeyes · 04-21-2002, 04:25 PM

Those books are cool, I especially like the girl main characters daomen,have any of you read any books by Patricia Wrede , she wrote the Enchated forest chronicles.

Tanoliel · 04-21-2002, 05:52 PM

Hi, whiteeyes! Welcome to the moot! I've read Wrede...there's probably a thread on here about her books, too, but I haven't bothered to look.

-tano

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-21-2002, 09:31 PM

ooh, Patricia C. Wrede books!!!! If there isn't a thread on them already, I am definitely starting one! I love those books!

Oh, and welcome to the moot, whiteeyes!

rainbow · 04-23-2002, 01:02 PM

i read the first two but the religius stuff was a bit out of my depth im plannin to read them again later, has n e 1 read ne of his other books and r they ne good

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-23-2002, 10:50 PM

Most anything by Phillip Pullman is good.

03-12-2002, 11:41 PM	#21
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Really, FF? I hated the ending!!! Yet at the same time, it was good, and I liked it. It worked, anyway. It was bittersweet, like The Grey Havens in RotK. Except I found that even sadder. . . Does anyone else know what there daemon is/would be? (I used to be almost as obsessed with these books as I am with Tolkien's books now. . .almost. That was four years ago, though, and since then the last one has arrived.) My daemon (Luvaskatet) is a crow or a raven. I can't figure it out between those two. At least it's the same taxanomical family. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-13-2002, 12:14 AM	#22
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Yeah, I hated the ending too! Then I read it again and again and again and again and again . . . and I still hate it! But I love it too. It's perfect, and horrible, and beautiful. And yes, I thought it was sadder than the Grey Havens too. I always thought a daemon was a part of your soul that is visible from outside. Never thought what mine would be though. Maybe a bear . . . but I guess that's too big. I'll have to think about it. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-13-2002, 12:31 AM	#23
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Actually, I wasn't clear, I'm afraid. . .I thought The Grey Havens were sadder. I thought so because it is not just a few individuals for which there is bitter sadness, but quite a few, yet at the same time there are also happy things. It's wierd, but it's what I thought. As for daemons, when I was in eighth grade, I was so crazy about His Dark Materials, I decided that I did indeed have a daemon, and I came up with a name for him and everything. I always wanted to know what mine would fix as, and two years later (a little late, I know) I knew that my deamon was a crow or a raven. I, unfortunately, have only read Amber Spyglass once, but I must read it again, and soon! (After The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, hoME, and anything else I can get my greedy little hands (eyes, rather) on.) __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-17-2002, 11:37 PM	#24
Alethes Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: urban Oklahoma Posts: 73	I've read the trilogy. I don't know if I should put a spoiler warning or not, so just in case, SPOILERS ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' I loved the first book, and thought it was very well written. The second book seemed to be hinting at ideas about God, angels, etc. that I disagreed with. I didn't like the last book at all. Pullman took a fascinating trilogy and used it as a soapbox to proclaim completely erroneous views about God. It ruined the trilogy. I didn't really understand the serpent/Eve Biblical parallels, either. __________________ He who loves a pure heart and whose speech is gracious will have the king for his friend. -Proverbs 22:11

03-18-2002, 12:42 AM	#25
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Really? The second one's my favorite! I loved the religious stuff. It's a fascinating viewpoint. I liked the Bible parallels originally, but PP kind of didn't elaborate on them in the third book, and it was a bit confusing. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-18-2002, 01:16 AM	#26
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	Gahh! I love these books! Yeah, Eruviel, we were totally obsessed...heh. My daemon's name is Katzin, and he is a red fox. Heehee... I was dissapointed at the ending, too...I wanted more! Also, it seemed a little "fatalistic" if you know what I mean...like "this is the way it must be and so there, too bad you can't change anything." Which really annoyed me. I liked the religion stuff, too...ya see, I'm not really a Christian or anything (don't ask me....I haven't the foggiest idea what I am), so i really enjoy reading about that kinda stuff. It did seem a little soapboxy, though....but since it was in such an interesting story, I don't really mind! Still....MY bible is LotR... (and the Silmarillion, of course!) -tano __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

03-18-2002, 04:31 AM	#27
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Yeah, I kinda liked the religious stuff. But toward the middle of Amber Spyglass, I found it to be a little annoying and far from the beginning of the trilogy. I guess I like the first two better. Strangely enough (or not so strangely), I too consider Silmarillion to be my bible...I've even started referring to it as "The Bible" occasionally. Just to myself and Tano __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-09-2002, 08:25 PM	#28
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	So did I make a mistake by getting it for my 16 year old daughter? She's wiccan. Will she be upset by it? __________________ cya

04-09-2002, 08:33 PM	#29
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	I don't think anyone confident in their faith will be upset by the books. They are just stories and one man's opinions after all. I speak as a Christian who didn't particularly care for/agree with all of his views, but I found the books to be an excellent read.

04-10-2002, 01:01 AM	#30
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	I thought the metaphysical ideas were very interesting and quite well thought out. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

04-14-2002, 05:59 PM	#31
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	Crying your eyes out So did I! I knew it had to be, but that didn;t keep me from walking around saying evil under my breath for the week after. __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

04-15-2002, 12:33 AM	#32
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	Did you mean "had to be" as in the ending, TwirlingString? (btw, I like your name!). I suppose...but like I said, it was a bit fatalistic. My friend and I wrote a letter to PP (which never actually got sent, oh well) about all the different options he could have done for the ending. Can't think of any now. Sorry. I'll post some if I do... -tano __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

04-15-2002, 01:25 PM	#33
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	Yes, I meant the ending. But it drove me crazy that he'd manuvered the ending just so. There really was no way out anyway, this just kept them from having to choose between thier worlds. Do you think they'll meet again in the afterlife? __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

04-17-2002, 12:20 AM	#34
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	mmmm...one would hope so. I really hate it when people end books like that. I want to say that I wish he would write more, another book, short story, etc, but in a way I know that it would sorta ruin the ending. sigh GRRRRARGH. hiss. -tano __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

04-17-2002, 01:11 PM	#35
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	I know exactly what you mean. But with the way he ended the story, I'm much happier to reveiw their next meeting in my imagination. (Finally, a thread I didn't mess up!) __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

04-21-2002, 04:25 PM	#36
whiteeyes Sapling Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1	Those books are cool, I especially like the girl main characters daomen,have any of you read any books by Patricia Wrede , she wrote the Enchated forest chronicles.

04-21-2002, 05:52 PM	#37
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	Hi, whiteeyes! Welcome to the moot! I've read Wrede...there's probably a thread on here about her books, too, but I haven't bothered to look. -tano __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

04-21-2002, 09:31 PM	#38
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	ooh, Patricia C. Wrede books!!!! If there isn't a thread on them already, I am definitely starting one! I love those books! Oh, and welcome to the moot, whiteeyes! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-23-2002, 01:02 PM	#39
rainbow Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: in my head Posts: 61	i read the first two but the religius stuff was a bit out of my depth im plannin to read them again later, has n e 1 read ne of his other books and r they ne good __________________ smile & be happy (frodo lives) BANANERISM RULES!!!!! the spotty dog chases its tail till all its spots fall off!

04-23-2002, 10:50 PM	#40
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Most anything by Phillip Pullman is good. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

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