Gandalf about to die? - Page 2

***Valandil*** · 12-27-2010, 12:54 PM

Besides - at the time Bilbo wrote down this adventure, he didn't know that Gandalf was a Maia. Or maybe even what a Maia was!

Lightice · 01-14-2002, 11:44 AM

I'd say, that nine Nazgul would be darm much harder to kill than 900 goblins, plus their special powers and aura of fear.

Noble Elf Lord · 08-18-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightice

I'd say, that nine Nazgul would be darm much harder to kill than 900 goblins, plus their special powers and aura of fear.

The point is not whether you can kill them, but whether you can get out of the situation alive. Where do you think you have better chances - in the middle of a 900-headed Orc thrall, or in front of nine fire-, water- and Elf-fearing Nazgûl?

(And as a side note, truly has the Númenorian blood grown thin if the Men of Minas Anor fear those wretched shadows.)

Tinman · 08-21-2009, 03:16 PM

I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier.

That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda.

Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

barrelrider110 · 03-30-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman

I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier.

That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda.

Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

I agree with Tinman. As a Maia, Gandalf's spirit may have been immortal but his body was not. They were facing unbeatable odds, and to stay in the trees would have meant certain death for all. His plan was a desperate attempt to use his subtle arts to save the Dwarves and Bilbo. To do that he would have needed to occupy all the Goblins and Wargs and until he was sure his charges were out of harm's way. A fighting retreat would have been out of the question.

Tinman · 04-04-2011, 01:38 PM

A great quote from the appendices, when gandalf is speaking of the importance of the quest for erebor:

"Yet things might have gone far otherwise and far worse. When you think of the great Battle of the Pelennor, do not forget the battles in Dale and the valour of Durin's Folk. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell. There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now hope to return from the victory here only to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring in Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth."

It really puts into perspective how important the dwarves mission was, and I think Gandalf truely believed at that second their fate was tied to the fate of middle earth.

Spock · 01-14-2002, 02:22 PM

For one, the goblins were scared stiff of the Nazgul. They held more power; magical; whereas goblins have mere strength; stamina; to go on.

Lightice · 01-15-2002, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spock
For one, the goblins were scared stiff of the Nazgul. They held more power; magical; whereas goblins have mere strength; stamina; to go on.

And nazgul can propably keep on fighting forever against lesser foes, at least in place where sun does not shine, as I can't imagine them getting tired.

afro-elf · 01-16-2002, 08:38 PM

However, 900 spears, swords and arrows would do a lot of damage.

And being mauled by Wargs is kinda tough too.

Agburanar · 01-17-2002, 08:56 AM

I simply meant it's harder to keep your eyes on 900 goblins than it is to keep track of 9 nazgul.

Wayfarer · 01-17-2002, 07:08 PM

I think it would be easier to stay alive with the nazgul, but not nescessarily easier to defeat them.

After all, they have some pretty glaring weaknesses. (fire, water, light)

afro-elf · 01-17-2002, 07:27 PM

Thank you for articulating what I failed to verbalize.

Wayfarer · 01-17-2002, 08:04 PM

Any Time.

nobody · 01-20-2002, 06:49 AM

I can`t imagine a maia being killed by all the goblins in the world, so much for 900.

afro-elf · 01-20-2002, 08:48 AM

When Maia become incarnate they can be harmed.("killed")

Melkor was the most powerful of the Valar and Fingolfin caused him seven wounds that NEVER healed.

Sauron was "killed " by Gil Galad and Elendil.

Glorfindel and Ecthelion slew Maia.

Saruman was killed by wormtongue.

Finrod slew a great werewolf ( an Maia)

This is Tolkien's world not one like DnD or other high fantasy worlds.

Twilight · 02-06-2002, 07:37 PM

I think that the most imporntant part on Afro-elf's list is Sauruman. I was an Istari, the same as Gandalf. All it takes is one good strike to take an Istari. Surrounded on all sides, the dwarves would die fairly quickly. Then Galdalf would be surrounded and alone. He can't guard all sides at once. That is why one oponent is sometimes easyer. You know where all of him is. You don't know where every threat is while surrounded.

Christiana · 06-07-2002, 11:51 PM

I agree.

Radagast The Brown · 06-08-2002, 10:03 AM

Quote:

originally posted by afro elf
Melkor was the most powerful of the Valar and Fingolfin caused him seven wounds that NEVER healed.

you're right, but Glorfindel can't kill vala, even if he's ncarnate.
I guess that maia could been killed, as Saruman, but if they get out of their "body" they can't be defited. Sauron got out of his body after he lost to Huan in the bottle and when he got in to a new body he was still heart.

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 06-29-2002, 05:19 PM

don't you think that if Gandalf is a wizard that he could do something like cast a spell or something. He barely does any magic. I should think that there would be some kind of spell to save them if the eagles had not come.

Christiana · 06-29-2002, 05:24 PM

Hes not really an hp wizard.

12-27-2010, 12:54 PM	#1
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Besides - at the time Bilbo wrote down this adventure, he didn't know that Gandalf was a Maia. Or maybe even what a Maia was! __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

01-14-2002, 02:22 PM	#7
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	For one, the goblins were scared stiff of the Nazgul. They held more power; magical; whereas goblins have mere strength; stamina; to go on. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-16-2002, 08:38 PM	#9
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	However, 900 spears, swords and arrows would do a lot of damage. And being mauled by Wargs is kinda tough too. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 01-17-2002 at 12:35 PM.

01-17-2002, 07:08 PM	#11
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I think it would be easier to stay alive with the nazgul, but not nescessarily easier to defeat them. After all, they have some pretty glaring weaknesses. (fire, water, light) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-17-2002, 07:27 PM	#12
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Thank you for articulating what I failed to verbalize. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

01-14-2002, 11:44 AM	#2
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	I'd say, that nine Nazgul would be darm much harder to kill than 900 goblins, plus their special powers and aura of fear.

08-21-2009, 03:16 PM	#4
Tinman Enting Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 68	I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier. That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda. Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

04-04-2011, 01:38 PM	#6
Tinman Enting Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 68	A great quote from the appendices, when gandalf is speaking of the importance of the quest for erebor: "Yet things might have gone far otherwise and far worse. When you think of the great Battle of the Pelennor, do not forget the battles in Dale and the valour of Durin's Folk. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell. There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now hope to return from the victory here only to ruin and ash. But that has been averted – because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring in Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth." It really puts into perspective how important the dwarves mission was, and I think Gandalf truely believed at that second their fate was tied to the fate of middle earth.

01-17-2002, 08:56 AM	#10
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	I simply meant it's harder to keep your eyes on 900 goblins than it is to keep track of 9 nazgul.

01-17-2002, 08:04 PM	#13
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Any Time. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-20-2002, 06:49 AM	#14
nobody Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2	I can`t imagine a maia being killed by all the goblins in the world, so much for 900.

01-20-2002, 08:48 AM	#15
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	When Maia become incarnate they can be harmed.("killed") Melkor was the most powerful of the Valar and Fingolfin caused him seven wounds that NEVER healed. Sauron was "killed " by Gil Galad and Elendil. Glorfindel and Ecthelion slew Maia. Saruman was killed by wormtongue. Finrod slew a great werewolf ( an Maia) This is Tolkien's world not one like DnD or other high fantasy worlds. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

02-06-2002, 07:37 PM	#16
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	I think that the most imporntant part on Afro-elf's list is Sauruman. I was an Istari, the same as Gandalf. All it takes is one good strike to take an Istari. Surrounded on all sides, the dwarves would die fairly quickly. Then Galdalf would be surrounded and alone. He can't guard all sides at once. That is why one oponent is sometimes easyer. You know where all of him is. You don't know where every threat is while surrounded. __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

06-07-2002, 11:51 PM	#17
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	I agree. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

06-29-2002, 05:19 PM	#19
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	don't you think...... don't you think that if Gandalf is a wizard that he could do something like cast a spell or something. He barely does any magic. I should think that there would be some kind of spell to save them if the eagles had not come. __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

06-29-2002, 05:24 PM	#20
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Hes not really an hp wizard. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

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