The strangest of all Tolkien's creatures? - Page 2

samwise of the shire · 11-03-2001, 08:29 PM

Well I know for one thing LOTR says that Shelob was an evil thing in the SHAPE of a spider, so does'nt that mean that her mother might have been an evil maiar in the shape of a spider, and maybe the spiders in Mirkwood were half spiders, you know alot of male arachnids are smaller then their mates. You never know.
I would think that the coolest and the most mystic beings would have to be the Ainur, the spirits who sang to Illúvatar in the begg. Or the Ents.

Ñólendil · 11-03-2001, 10:28 PM

I cannot imagine what Ungoliant would be, if not a Maia in the shape of a vast spider. She nonetheless bred with what were apparently 'normal' monstrous spiders, those of the Valley of Dreadful Death. Shelob was of that terrible offspring, and she apparently bred with 'normal' monstrous spiders in the Shadowy Mountains, whose offspring removed to Mirkwood. Lovely names.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 11-04-2001, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
I cannot imagine what Ungoliant would be, if not a Maia in the shape of a vast spider. She nonetheless bred with what were apparently 'normal' monstrous spiders, those of the Valley of Dreadful Death. Shelob was of that terrible offspring, and she apparently bred with 'normal' monstrous spiders in the Shadowy Mountains, whose offspring removed to Mirkwood. Lovely names.

So, what you are saying is that she bred with lesser beings but evil as she, and of more mortal makeup. Maybe a bad example, but like Thingol and Melian. (Not trying to start anything there, just a question and maybe a bad comparison.) But, you know what I mean.

Ñólendil · 11-04-2001, 01:22 AM

Yes, exactly like that. The Spiders of Mirkwood would have thin Maian blood in their veins, from one common ancestor. But I think 'Maian' is actually too noble a word for the filthy things. 'Raucon' is better. 'Maiar' means 'the Beautiful'. A rauco was a 'powerful, hostile and terrible creature', translated 'demon' by Tolkien in Valarauco, 'demon of might', the form in Quenya of 'Balrog'.

Kirinki54 · 11-04-2001, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
But I think 'Maian' is actually too noble a word for the filthy things. 'Raucon' is better. 'Maiar' means 'the Beautiful'. A rauco was a 'powerful, hostile and terrible creature', translated 'demon' by Tolkien in Valarauco, 'demon of might', the form in Quenya of 'Balrog'.

I thought the Balrogs still counted as Maiar, although when becoming a sub-group they were called the Valaraukar. Where there also any sub-groups of the more pleasant Maiar?

Ñólendil · 11-04-2001, 03:54 PM

All I meant was that 'Maia' is too pure a word to be used for a demon. The Balrogs were indeed Maiar, or fallen Maiar. The only 'good' sub-group of the Maiar I think anyone knows about are the Istari. Essays imply that the five who came to Middle-earth in the Second and Third Ages were not the only ones that existed.

Kirinki54 · 11-05-2001, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Essays imply that the five who came to Middle-earth in the Second and Third Ages were not the only ones that existed.

Yes, I think I saw something somewhere about the five Istari being only the most important.
The full history would be something to learn!

Proudfoots · 01-29-2002, 05:33 PM

Hands down it goes to the "wereworms" of the Last Desert in the Far East, as mentioned in The Hobbit.

Can you even imagine what the heck a "wereworm" looks like?

Devin

Ñólendil · 01-29-2002, 06:43 PM

Welcome!

One might imagine a wereworm to be eight inchis long, named so by biologists because of it's unique fore-teeth and exceptional fur-like hair. So ... I'd rule the vague wereworms out on the basis of .. vagueness.

Edited: lol! I'm an idiot. Not having seen this topic in a while, I read the title as 'strongest of all Tolkien's creatures'. My description of wereworms to show they might not be too strong made them out to be very strange, didn't it?

Proudfoots · 01-29-2002, 07:11 PM

Well...the way Bilbo described them, wereworms were something fierce to be feared, as he held them up as an example of something he would face to prove his bravery.

I assume ICE's MERP dealt with wereworms in some fashion. Since I first read The Hobbit, circa 1972, I always pictured them as miniature versions of Dune sandworms with two human arms sticking out of them and a human head...an awfully lot like Leto III the God Emperor of Dune turned out to be.

Devin

Foul_Dwimmerlaik · 01-29-2002, 11:27 PM

Ungoliant was a physical manifestation of the Void, the opposite of Illuvatar. Probably just about the worst thing that ever existed. Morgoth + a bunch of Blargos were barely able to subdue her. I sort of think of Ungoliant and Shelob = Morgoth and Sauron in terms of their relationships with each other.

Arathorn · 01-30-2002, 05:53 AM

I don't know about you guys, but most everyone in middle earth say that the hobbits are the strangest as tales of their origins are hard to come by.

i disagree with my friend mr afro-elf. Entmooters are only strange here in the real world.

Perhaps if we trade places with the hobbits, everyone will be happy. Of course, they'll still find our names confusing...

Lightice · 01-30-2002, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Proudfoots
Well...the way Bilbo described them, wereworms were something fierce to be feared, as he held them up as an example of something he would face to prove his bravery.

I assume ICE's MERP dealt with wereworms in some fashion. Since I first read The Hobbit, circa 1972, I always pictured them as miniature versions of Dune sandworms with two human arms sticking out of them and a human head...an awfully lot like Leto III the God Emperor of Dune turned out to be.

Devin

I had always imagined wereworms being simply lesser (but still terrible) dragons...
Dunno why, but idea of half human-half worm is too much for me to imagine (exept perhaps in sick dreams of H.P. Lovecraft, but he would had called them with different name).

I don't know what would be most strange creature of Tolkien...Perhaps the Watcher in the Water, the Kraken, was oddest. Unfortunately it isn't much known...
Only things we know of it was, that it was acient and powerful...

Ñólendil · 01-30-2002, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Well...the way Bilbo described them, wereworms were something fierce to be feared, ...

Sure, but we know next to nothing about them. We can't say they're the strongest of Tolkien's creatures based upon the name (or even the context of that name entering into Bilbo's words).

Mithrandir · 01-30-2002, 09:44 PM

For me, it would have to be the Ents. They are very strange indeed, but great at the same time!! Treebeard is actually one of my favourite characters, but still, their physical form is very unique

athelas · 02-01-2002, 06:22 AM

It would have to be Gollum. Yessss preciousssss....him. The mutant hobbit. He talks in a weird manner, has split personalities and an addiction to fisssh and the One Ring. And he plays an important part in LotR, and is not just a flat, one-dimensional monster that the fellowship runs into that takes up at the most, a few pages.( think orcs) He bags the award for the strangest creature.

The_Real_Legolas · 02-02-2002, 07:41 PM

how do u delete threads????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????:confused :

Comic Book Guy · 02-02-2002, 10:00 PM

I'm not sure what deleting posts has to do with this thread, but normal Members can't delete posts, only Moderators and Administrators can delete posts and threads.

emplynx · 02-02-2002, 10:52 PM

I would have to say humans. Who would have thought of that?
J/K
I think that Ents would probably be the strangest. They were a funny crowd.

FrodoFriend · 02-03-2002, 02:15 AM

Beorn is kinda strange. I always wondered where he came from. Gollum is strange too, in a weird way.

But I think the award for Strangest Creature should go to Tom Bombadil. What a bizarre character! He doesn't quite fit in anywhere.

11-03-2001, 08:29 PM	#21
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Well I know for one thing LOTR says that Shelob was an evil thing in the SHAPE of a spider, so does'nt that mean that her mother might have been an evil maiar in the shape of a spider, and maybe the spiders in Mirkwood were half spiders, you know alot of male arachnids are smaller then their mates. You never know. I would think that the coolest and the most mystic beings would have to be the Ainur, the spirits who sang to Illúvatar in the begg. Or the Ents. __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

11-03-2001, 10:28 PM	#22
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I cannot imagine what Ungoliant would be, if not a Maia in the shape of a vast spider. She nonetheless bred with what were apparently 'normal' monstrous spiders, those of the Valley of Dreadful Death. Shelob was of that terrible offspring, and she apparently bred with 'normal' monstrous spiders in the Shadowy Mountains, whose offspring removed to Mirkwood. Lovely names. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-04-2001, 01:22 AM	#24
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Yes, exactly like that. The Spiders of Mirkwood would have thin Maian blood in their veins, from one common ancestor. But I think 'Maian' is actually too noble a word for the filthy things. 'Raucon' is better. 'Maiar' means 'the Beautiful'. A rauco was a 'powerful, hostile and terrible creature', translated 'demon' by Tolkien in Valarauco, 'demon of might', the form in Quenya of 'Balrog'. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-04-2001, 03:54 PM	#26
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	All I meant was that 'Maia' is too pure a word to be used for a demon. The Balrogs were indeed Maiar, or fallen Maiar. The only 'good' sub-group of the Maiar I think anyone knows about are the Istari. Essays imply that the five who came to Middle-earth in the Second and Third Ages were not the only ones that existed. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-29-2002, 05:33 PM	#28
Proudfoots Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 2	Weirdest creature Hands down it goes to the "wereworms" of the Last Desert in the Far East, as mentioned in The Hobbit. Can you even imagine what the heck a "wereworm" looks like? Devin

01-29-2002, 06:43 PM	#29
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Welcome! One might imagine a wereworm to be eight inchis long, named so by biologists because of it's unique fore-teeth and exceptional fur-like hair. So ... I'd rule the vague wereworms out on the basis of .. vagueness. Edited: lol! I'm an idiot. Not having seen this topic in a while, I read the title as 'strongest of all Tolkien's creatures'. My description of wereworms to show they might not be too strong made them out to be very strange, didn't it? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-29-2002, 07:11 PM	#30
Proudfoots Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 2	Wereworms Well...the way Bilbo described them, wereworms were something fierce to be feared, as he held them up as an example of something he would face to prove his bravery. I assume ICE's MERP dealt with wereworms in some fashion. Since I first read The Hobbit, circa 1972, I always pictured them as miniature versions of Dune sandworms with two human arms sticking out of them and a human head...an awfully lot like Leto III the God Emperor of Dune turned out to be. Devin

01-29-2002, 11:27 PM	#31
Foul_Dwimmerlaik Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 76	Ungoliant was a physical manifestation of the Void, the opposite of Illuvatar. Probably just about the worst thing that ever existed. Morgoth + a bunch of Blargos were barely able to subdue her. I sort of think of Ungoliant and Shelob = Morgoth and Sauron in terms of their relationships with each other. __________________ Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the lidless eye.

01-30-2002, 05:53 AM	#32
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	I don't know about you guys, but most everyone in middle earth say that the hobbits are the strangest as tales of their origins are hard to come by. i disagree with my friend mr afro-elf. Entmooters are only strange here in the real world. Perhaps if we trade places with the hobbits, everyone will be happy. Of course, they'll still find our names confusing... __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 01-30-2002 at 09:02 AM.

01-30-2002, 09:44 PM	#35
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	For me, it would have to be the Ents. They are very strange indeed, but great at the same time!! Treebeard is actually one of my favourite characters, but still, their physical form is very unique __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

02-01-2002, 06:22 AM	#36
athelas Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Twilight Meres Posts: 87	It would have to be Gollum. Yessss preciousssss....him. The mutant hobbit. He talks in a weird manner, has split personalities and an addiction to fisssh and the One Ring. And he plays an important part in LotR, and is not just a flat, one-dimensional monster that the fellowship runs into that takes up at the most, a few pages.( think orcs) He bags the award for the strangest creature. __________________ Farewell sweet earth and nortern sky, for ever blest,since here did lie and here with lissom limbs did run beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun, Lùthien Tinùviel more fair than mortal tongue can tell. Though all to ruin fell the world and were dissolved and backward hurled unmade into old abyss, yet were its making good, for this-- the dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea-- that Lùthien for a time should be. "I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam."-Frodo FRODO LIVES!!! (erm...Sam does too, right?)

02-02-2002, 07:41 PM	#37
The_Real_Legolas Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 100	???? how do u delete threads???????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????:confused : __________________ One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them One ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them ****************************** LEGOLAS ROCKS & so do I! GO ARCHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

02-02-2002, 10:00 PM	#38
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	I'm not sure what deleting posts has to do with this thread, but normal Members can't delete posts, only Moderators and Administrators can delete posts and threads.

02-02-2002, 10:52 PM	#39
emplynx Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,214	I would have to say humans. Who would have thought of that? J/K I think that Ents would probably be the strangest. They were a funny crowd.

02-03-2002, 02:15 AM	#40
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Beorn is kinda strange. I always wondered where he came from. Gollum is strange too, in a weird way. But I think the award for Strangest Creature should go to Tom Bombadil. What a bizarre character! He doesn't quite fit in anywhere. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

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