The Anti-theist Thread

[Khadrane]

Khadrane, have you personally talked to God about this? Because as far as I'm concerned that's your point of view, not his. He created Hell to send them there - if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. And first of all, they just don't believe in God, they don't, however, believe in pain and torture as fun. So what's the point in the torturing? Obviously, God wants to put them there to hurt them. If he was just "giving them what they want" he wouldn't let them be tortured. End of argument.

The true torture is being somewhere where God isn't present. It's not like being whipped and burned up. That is what I have always understood anyway.

[Twilight]

I dont know where you got that idea Rogue Elf. I can't stress this enough GOD DIDN'T CREATE HELL. Satan created hell. I agree with Khadrane. God removing his presence is the worst thing immaginable

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Khadrane


The flood. This won't really explain anything to you, because you don't believe in the flood, but wouldn't hundreds of millions of tons of water carve a canyon quicker than normal? When Mt. Saint Helen's blew, a canyon one tenth or one hundredth the size of the Grand Canyon was carved in a day.

Where did You get this information from?? Have you seen Mt St Helens? I lived in Oregon for 15 months and had been there 5 times. I also - coming back stopped off at the Grand Canyon - I can tell you that there is NO canyon at Mt St Helens.

In regards to "The Flood". Back then they didn't even know North America existed. All the needed to see was a flood covering a 500 mile area and they would have thought the entire world was flooded.

[Rána Eressëa]

POV of the Rogue Elf:

Religion = Fairy Tale

How? Just like fairy tales, I only believed in it when I was a little child.

Why? I have never seen a vision or learnt a secret that would damn or save my soul.

What would you say if I told you you're going to Hell? Save me a seat.

[Khadrane]

Where did You get this information from?? Have you seen Mt St Helens? I lived in Oregon for 15 months and had been there 5 times. I also - coming back stopped off at the Grand Canyon - I can tell you that there is NO canyon at Mt St Helens.

Perhaps I should have said "In the vicinity of Mt. Saint Helens" I got the information from a science movie.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by afro-elf
rogue elf that is one of my favorite sites


Cirdan i'm glad you were here for that.

i got lost in the gabble

obvious the poster does not know about geology and posted some stuff that he didn;t understand and probably only a geo person would


so it sounds impressive to a layman but to a pro you sliced through it like fingolfin through a battalion of orcs

kudos

Thanks!!! There is no greater praise because Fingolfin totally rules!!! Which way to Angband!!!

[Khadrane]

What would you say if I told you you're going to Hell? Save me a seat.

Ach! Nooooo!!! But seriously, you don't want to go to hell, and I don't want you to go there either. I'm so sad now. I think I will cry.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Twilight
I dont know where you got that idea Rogue Elf. I can't stress this enough GOD DIDN'T CREATE HELL. Satan created hell.

I don't know where you got the idea that there's even a god to begin with. So we're equal, eh?

[jerseydevil]

There are no canyons in that area at all. I've been all over that area. It's made up of volcanoes - Mt Ranier, Mt St Helens, Mt Hood, Mt Bachlor and others, which are all part of the Cascade Mountain Range. The mud flows from the melting snow and ice from Mt St Helens caused a lot of damage - but believe me - nothing more than an over flowing river. What caused the most damage was the blast and thermal winds. Now everything is growing back though.

[Khadrane]

If you look in Job, (you have to believe in the Bible also, of course ) God asks Satan where he has been, and Satan says he has been wandering on the earth or something. That has nothing to do with anything, but I don't really care.

[Rána Eressëa]

Cirdan and afro-elf are two of my new best friends

Think really careful about this: "What would you say if I told you you're going to Hell? Save me a seat." You can't exactly save me a seat unless you're there, right? It was a joke, basically.

[Wayfarer]

I hate long posts... but I still haven't replied to A-Elf, so here it goes.

Your long list of citations got me. Almost.

"Your breasts are like fauns"
"You snakes! You brood of vipers!"
"You whitewashed tomb!"

Here's a classic one:

"Some Gadites defected to David at his stronghold in the desert. They were brave warriors, ready for battle and able to handle the shield and spear. Their faces were the faces of lions, and they were as swift as gazelles in the mountains."

So you would have me believe that the bible claims women can have young deer for breasts, the jews were actually snakes, and the romans actually appointed a tomb as the jewish religious leader? That there were men with the faces of lions in israel?

simply the bible says the earth was made in six days
so if you add up all the generations your that bishop did you will not get even close to the age of the earth.
simply humans or their ancestors where not there "IN THE BEGINNING" they appeared millions of years later. would you expect their fossils to contemepory with all the other homind fossils.

The earth could have been made in six days. Pointless.
The age of the earth is not proven. Just assumed.
There's really no reason to think that humans weren't there int he begenning. Isn't it darwin who's always quoted on the 'severe incompleteness of the fossil record'?

why would god try and decieve us by making all of our dating methods constantly wrong by billions of years.

As has been pointed out quite often, humans are very adept at fooling themselves.

also WHERE in the bible does it say that god is outside of linear time

You've got me there. The words 'linear time' do not appear together in the bible.

But... "In the begenning"... The beginning of what? Everything. Including time. God is not subject to time because he created it.

so are you saving god changed his mind makes things different
but if he is all knowing why would he change things.

Good question.
I would say that when God meade the earth, he expected it to change. It was his intention all along.

there have been meteor strikes, climate changes things do change but it doesn't mean that things have to all be radically altered as if by magic

Indeed! But, not speaking of God at all, there are many natural occurances that could change the way thins work and render gradualism invalid.

A rock formed with lead completely kills a UPb dating. KAr tests assume that no Argon has leaked into or out of the sample, etc. They're not very trustworthy.

Khadrane, I would advise you to forge moon dust. The 100 foot + estimates were made by Lyttleton(1956) and Hans Petterson(1960), but were never accepted by the scientific community.

Rogue...

I'm with Twilight. That annotated bible is rather in error.

The first five 'errors' in the book of Jeremiah:

"1:14-15 God plans to send enemy nations against his "chosen people." If this is his way of blessing them, I hope he never decides to bless America -- or any other country, for that matter."

It was in the contract. The Israelites broke thier side of hte bargain, and god punished them as he had promised.

"1:16 The worshipping of other gods is called wickedness."

This certainly doesn't seem like an error.

"2:20 Jeremiah insults people by calling them "harlots", saying that they have sex on every hill and under every tree."

And...?

"2:24 God compares Jerusalem's sinful ways to a promiscuous woman, or a wild donkey in heat.

And...?

"2:30 God tries, but in vain, to "correct" his people by killing their children."

God specifically said, again, that unless his people kept thier part of the bargain the would suffer. He tried time and time again to remind them of this... to no avail..

Basically you're still saying do whatever you want

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? "

Romans 6 1-2.

My message is live the best you can.

As CS Lewis said, you cannot truly become a Christian until you have tried your hardest, and failed. Once you've come to that point, then you can ask God to take over. But not before.

God doesn't want to send people there. He is just giving them what they want- they want to be completely out of the presence of God, and that is what they are getting.

Well said.

To add to that, it comes down to free choice. God created humanity, and wants them to be in communion with him, but that's our choice. To be with him forever is heaven. To be without him forever is hell.

Twilight: I like you, you're smart, but that's absolutely wrong.

Now i'm going to stop, before i hit refresh and have to add to this message. ]: )

[afro-elf]

wayfarer

there are responces to you on page 11

[afro-elf]

oops i see did while i was posting this

[Wayfarer]

My friend, I cannot understand a word you utter.

Perhaps you're taking this error thing a bit too far? ]: )

[emplynx]

Originally posted by Rogue Elf
Where's the justice in giving your two virgin daughters to a band of robbers to do what they want with them?

Their could be several reasons for that
He was saving angelic messengers of God, which may be more important than his daughers.
He had faith God would save them and he was delaying.
He sinned in offering them, and don't go saying that makes the Bible wrong because people sinned.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Every bornagain christian will tell you that is key in christianity

[jerseydevil]

Can anyone answer me as to why there has to be a god? I personally don't think there is, but I'm curious why so many people feel that if you don't believe that there is something wrong with you or that you're going to hell. Why is it so important to believe? It is what it is - and science will someday bring us closer to understanding, whereas blind faith doesn't do anything other than keep you standing still.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
You haven't given me any facts so far. So I'm not particularly surprised that you're not going to. ]: )

Actually, I beg to differ. Whether or not, you believe in evolution is beside the point, I have been pointing out facts to support my argument in terms of the theory of evolution. The theory is one thing, the facts are another. You don't have to go for evolution (Eru knows, it's hard to get your head around!), but there are irrefutable facts. There have been hominid animals that look similar to us, but are shorter, stockier, more robust, less robust, smaller skulls, bigger skulls, and so forth. That is fact. I have chosen to take this fact, and apply the theory of evolution to it. Radiocabon dating, again, fact. Neanders had bigger brains than us: fact. Lucy existed. Fact. Whether or not she was hominid or anthropoid is beside the point. That's what we are trying to settle. But she did exist.

Now, I could go on like a pedantic git, but I'm sure you are waiting anxiously for this, so you can lampoon it.

Regarding the methods of dating, everyone knows, that you do not just take one measure of something, and wave it around like there is no tomorrow. You take MORE than ONE date, so that you can work out what the margin of error is. Now, when you consider that the Earth is 4.55 billion years old, based on the dating of rocks, the margin of error is so small, that really, these inaccuracies are moot. So it's out by 0.000007374236%? Who cares? And I'll say it again, all dating methods are callibrated, since it was realised that modern day equivalents, were not the same ratios as the older counterparts.

I'd pull out some quotes as well, but really, it's beside the point. Unless you read the whole damned book, you can put any spin on it, that you like. Besides, I REALLY should be working on the proposal thats due in today!

[Rána Eressëa]

Okay. Time to be childish because the seriouness is killing me.

*starts chanting* ...fair-ee tale...fair-ee tale...

[Starr Polish]

Originally posted by jerseydevil



In regards to "The Flood". Back then they didn't even know North America existed. All the needed to see was a flood covering a 500 mile area and they would have thought the entire world was flooded.

True, and there has been proof (read it in a science magazine some time ago) that there was a flood in the Dead Seas area, or something like that, many thousand years ago.

You have to remember, that 500 mile area WAS their world. And do you believe in Pangea?

Not trying to be rude, kay? Kind of tired so this may not make sense.