Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

I think Val's main problem is that in this RPG layout he is left practically alone without supporters. He can take counsil only with himself. He plays his main counselors himself. Shah plays Ray and Marty, but practically Ray is so besotted with Viv, that he has no time or concern for his King. Marty has other interests now. Rian is completely absorbed in her family-love life. Earniel is the only one to whom he might turn, but it seems she herself is getting otherwise attracted. Even Annawen has forsaken the King.

(Speaking of that what fun will there be now in Commerce class?)

I believe the game would be much more attractive to Val if he had someone to plot with, another player, not another of his characters. We need another player for the Good side. Perhaps his mother might come to check on him? Whatever.

What do you think about it, Val?

NOT my mother!!!

Maybe you're right CS - and maybe I was being a little crabby with the first round of statements (but seeing the history of this game, maybe I'm allowed that ), but I did have what I thought were some legitimate concerns - and they had just been growing and building. And... I DO feel like I have to have a chance to 'take on' the Nazgul... somehow.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Was it really? It was mostly responding to things I had been asked after my post #150 in this thread. As for the one about Udu - I had been thinking of that ever since Udu arrived, and even thought about working it into the Reception, but I got... distracted.

As to 'Questionnaire Questions' - not sure and with a lot of qualifiers. Mostly didn't want to start voting out of concern that the votes would quickly split along 'party lines' (all the Nazgul voting one way and all the rest voting the other). Perhaps something else to consider is my point about doing these things while casually keeping three other Nazgul all wrapped up. If THAT was a hint of what I might encounter later in the game, it seemed troublesome.

I have some counter-plots in mind - but wanted to see about a 'check' at the other end before I decided how much to implement.

Ok, I see the question of Udu is important to you. OK, I will put him to work starting Tuesday. I simply can't assign him classes on Monday, as he was drinking and fighting all night and had no time to prepare his lectures.
The Chancellor must think of his personnel, after all. If I get your special permission, I will give him Tuesday as well, and make him start on Wednesday. That will leave him in the library for the good part of Monday and Tuesday. But MM's have promised to take him around Tharbad on Monday. Will he have to miss it?
OK?

"If THAT was a hint of what I might encounter later in the game, it seemed troublesome."
You mean physical violence? No, we are not planning anything of the kind against you or your followers. You are MOST PRECIOUSSS to us, our key to the Ring. Also we are not able to plant long-lasting suggestions in your well-shielded mind. Believe me, it is not easy and will not pass unnoticed. What was done to the maid was a sort of hypnosis, short and not exactly against her personality.

"party lines" As you see, your fears were not founded. Most of the nazgul voted along the same lines as the "good party". And there are some characters, plotlines etc. in this game that frustrate players of both parties. But I believe that everyone has right to develop the lines he or she likes, even if the other are not quite happy with them.

Definitely, your side needs some support and consolidation. A new GOOD player on the Good side, playing one of Val's councellors, that is what is needed!

Originally Posted by Valandil

And really - if the Nazgul are ALREADY onto the idea that the One Ring isn't with Valandil, and is likely in the Anduin River, aren't they robbing themselves of 3000 years of suspense?

Not at all, The Morgul Lord now firmly believes that the Ring is kept in Imladris, where no one of them can go.

The ML doesn't believe that the Ring is in the River, it were some girls who suggested that, first Aiwendis, then Viv.
I tried to make it evident, perhaps will post another denial.
No Ring of Power was ever known to slip from someone's finger! The nazgul had no idea that the One would ever do that!

Honestly, Val, I see this game as a lot of subtle diplomacy, not open fight, or magic fight.

I am glad, you sound more cheerful, Val. For me it is a great pleasure to plot against you!
Gor

[Valandil]

No - what Udu does is not that important to me. It was a passing thought when he arrived and wrote of his desires, and I thought it might be in character for the ML to not necessarily want to give him what he wished... especially if it meant that Udu would be unoccupied enough to just fill his time carousing. Then - once I thought of classes, the thought about Udu returned. (sorry Udu ) Do what you want on it though - go along only if you agree it would be what you think the ML would have done.

It also allows us to have another Professor have a sudden inexplicable illness or accident.

I guess 3000 years from now those girlie Nazgulettes will be saying, "Toldja so!"

I just made a game-post, but it isn't showing in the index (I think there's a 'time-out bug' as well as a 'new page bug'). Check it out.

[Gordis]

Well, Val,, very interesting post. The beginning was VERY funny. Sad that you didn't tell us of your dream fully

Then now the sword. My general opinion is this: the sword is too talkative. Doesn't ring true.
As for what IT said, I believe it is a valid idea that the sword could warn you against the "counted ones". It could sense their presence and warn. I buy it readily. However, if you want the game to continue much longer, I would have been more vague.

But, I believe, the sword's extensive knowledge of the effects of topas, properties of stones, love potions and methods of their preparations is quite strange. If I were you, I would have corrected that.

Moreover, this development is not even NECESSARY. Orethurion will take a book and find all there is to find about topazes. The Library is there at hand, in the Tower of the Uni. Then, after discussing Val's condition and dreams and the effects of topaz at countering potions, Val and Oreturion could guess that a love potion was used and find a remedy. Though, believe me, all poisins or drugs have specific counter-measures. They have no way to know what was in Aiwendis's Number Nine TM potion.

[The last sane person]

Hehehee...I liked the begining of your post, that was fun!

Got me curious as to what the dream was, you sneaky fellow.

Ooh, Raendil the Pawn, sounds fun, the poor doop will have no clue what he stepped in!

[CrazySquirrel]

How are you going to play further, Valandil, if you choose to reveal all the secrets to rpg-Val?

It is what? End of the game??

Very good posts ALL. But I am just curious, is it all for nothing??? We are being closed?

[The last sane person]

Sounds like it....

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

We're being closed? When's this happening

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

*goes around and gathers things together*

OK, here's Gordis's 3 questions, my 1 question, and BB's 2 questions :

1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?

2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?

3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?

4. Do you believe and accept that certain people can implant thoughts in another person's mind that impels them to do something, either in accord or out of accord with what they would naturally do?

5. Are we agreed to keep animal reaction pretty much as is for rpg practicality with the odd unease post being fine for realism?

6. Forgetting actual parameters at this point, is there general agreement in priniciple to not go TOO far with nazgul powers?

1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Only certain people. The most powerful.
5. Yes.
6. Yes, but I agree, we need to decide as a group what to far is, as some people may see it differently to others.

Lotesse, I think it was agreed that Khamûl's Ring was more powerful than the others (with the obvious exception of the Morgul Lord), as it was him into which the Rule of Dol Guldur was given.

Not quite sure what to do for my next post, as the Chancellor did say to keep all Nazgûl violence out of the city, yet now he is encouraging Khamûl to punish Lily. Thoughts?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well, Val,, very interesting post. The beginning was VERY funny.

I agree with Gordis - wonderful!

Then now the sword. My general opinion is this: the sword is too talkative. Doesn't ring true.

I agree with Gordis.

I read the sword part and thought, Oh, dear - (apparently) unlimited special powers again.

I just think we need to use these "special power" things like Tolkien used his eagles - sparingly, and with limitations - no matter WHICH "side" uses them.

Not everyone has had time to respond to the 6 questions, but so far it sure looks like a general consensus to go light on the special power things - they need to have limits, and have a cost.

I would suggest that Val's sword be a combination of Huan (the Hound of Valinor that helped Beren and Luthien, and could talk to humans only 3 times in its life) and Gurthang (the sword of Turin and the only talking sword that I can recall, but it only said 2 sentences and then killed Turin ), and Sting (that glowed when danger was near). Gordis has an excellent point that the info should already be available to Val through other sources anyway, so perhaps take that part out. Make this time the first "talk" time, and it can tell Val about what it can do as far as warning ("when you are in danger, I'll beep if I"m on regular mode, and vibrate if I'm on silent mode" ), and that it can talk twice more, and some other general things. So I would like to suggest that you consider giving it has an unlimited "warning" capability like Sting, and very limited "speaking" ability like Huan and Gurthang.

[The last sane person]

Agreed on the sword thing, it reminds me of a cartoon that my little cousin watches, Dave the Barbarian or something.

as for the 6 questions....

1)no, but she sure as hell will be confused with all that wine, probably wont remember much at all anyways

2)yes, but i think the wine and all will make her weary enough

3)I dont think they can make her remember clearly, Gandalf had trouble pulling the truth out of gollum when they found him.

4)No, not if its totally out of character, not only will the player probably catch it as a bogus thought, the people around them will notice its out of whack.

5)Yes

6)YES!

[Rían]

I updated the survey on the previous page - thanks for responding, everyone, it looks like there's a real consensus here, which is nice!!

Sane - you wrote "no" for 4, but it's the same as a conditional "yes" the way that you wrote it, so I put it in that way.


Nazgul character owners : I've been talking with TD about an upcoming scene btwn Rian and Khamul that I would like to have take place in the morning right after your conference. Basically it's the "firing" of Rian by Khamul, and I thought it would take place right outside the entry door of Orrodel (I'm doing it outside on purpose, so the Nazgul will have to restrain themselves from killing Rian and her friends, because they don't want to rouse suspicion!) I definitely need Khamul, Lilly and Penny there, and the others can be there if you guys want them to. TD told me to start it up, so when your get-together is done, let me know who wants to be in on this and I"ll start it. (If you don't want to be in on it, write your character as leaving or going to the wine cellar or something). Thanks

[Gordis]

Rian,
I started to reply to the 5 questions, then realised that my reply is exactly like TD's. I agree entirely with him.

Which brings us to the question of the maid, who is dangerous for us still. What to do with her should be decided.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Nazgul character owners : I've been talking with TD about an upcoming scene btwn Rian and Khamul that I would like to have take place in the morning right after your conference. Basically it's the "firing" of Rian by Khamul, and I thought it would take place right outside the entry door of Orrodel (I'm doing it outside on purpose, so the Nazgul will have to restrain themselves from killing Rian and her friends, because they don't want to rouse suspicion!) I definitely need Khamul, Lilly and Penny there, and the others can be there if you guys want them to. TD told me to start it up, so when your get-together is done, let me know who wants to be in on this and I"ll start it. (If you don't want to be in on it, write your character as leaving or going to the wine cellar or something). Thanks

The Morgul Lord, Udu, Tolvadok and Aiwendis will go home to the University invisible before dawn. Only the regular Orrodel family will be there in the morning.
So you can come into the house, Rian. No problem.

Poor Professor Galadannun has injured his neck, that was the cause of the commotion at night -lights and so on. Got in a fight in a tavern? Eh,TD?

TD?Please, don't look at the Morgul Lord's words posted by CS as an encouragement. It was just an effective threat to Lilly.

So, we have to finish the meeting ASAP. TD, what you think about the maid?
Kill her subtly?

[Rían]

I don't see why a good cosh on the noggin wouldn't be in order - and then everyone say, "wow, your head sure got messed up, because that sure didn't happen, THIS is what happened!" Would that be easier and cleaner than killing her? Was it just the encounter in the kitchen with Buz that you are trying to deal with?

Thanks for the survey input and the info on where the characters will be, Gordis

[Rían]

TD - can you elaborate on your answer to 4? Is it total carte blanche with any idea, or does the strength vary depending upon how it matches up with the person's inclination? And does it eventually "wear off" for things that are not just one-time things? (a one-time thing would be "Sneeze now!", as opposed to "sneeze every 10 minutes for the rest of your life" ). Can it be done anytime, anywhere, or does it have to be under special circumstances? (IOW, can Khamul walk by Arastud in the broad daylight and think into his head, "Go dump Annawen!", and Arastud will do it, or does he have to get Arastud into darkness and alone, like how Gordis was quoting how their power is greater in darkness, and suggest it then?)

[Gordis]

Rian you asked TD an interesting question "IOW, can Khamul walk by Arastud in the broad daylight and think into his head, "Go dump Annawen!", and Arastud will do it, or does he have to get Arastud into darkness and alone, like how Gordis was quoting how their power is greater in darkness, and suggest it then?"
Yes, I think with much concentration Khamul (or the Morgul Lord) is PERHAPS capable of making Arastud kill Annawen.Though, maybe, Arastud will prove too strong to be manipulated like that, if not drunk.

But Khamul will not do it because it will not pass unnoticed by Arastud himself.

Let us take the Ring and Frodo. The ring is basically a portion of Sauron's power, mind and will. It works like that:

Frodo waited, like a bird at the approach of a snake, unable to move. And as he waited, he felt, more urgent than ever before, the command that he should put on the Ring. But great as the pressure was, he felt no inclination now to yield to it. He knew that the Ring would only betray him, and that he had not, even if he put it on, the power to face the Morgul-king – not yet. There was no longer any answer to that command in his own will, dismayed by terror though it was, and he felt only the beating upon him of a great power from outside. It took his hand, and as Frodo watched with his mind, not willing it but in suspense (as if he looked on some old story far away), it moved the hand inch by inch towards the chain upon his neck. Then his own will stirred; slowly it forced the hand back, and set it to find another thing, a thing lying hidden near his breast.

So there is no way that Arastud would not feel a great EXTERNAL power subduing his own will. He will feel something HIGHLY UNNATURAL. Perhaps he will kill Annawen, if she is present right there and then, but he will know for sure that it was some devilry, and he will tell as much. And the King reads hearts of men, so he will believe him. That is a give-away. So what then? Kill Arastud and so on, and so on?

That is the way I see it.

[The last sane person]

That is the way I see it too. People WILL notice that their mind is being invaded, they dont need to be blue blood and trained!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Poor Professor Galadannun has injured his neck, that was the cause of the commotion at night -lights and so on. Got in a fight in a tavern? Eh,TD?

TD?Please, don't look at the Morgul Lord's words posted by CS as an encouragement. It was just an effective threat to Lilly.

So, we have to finish the meeting ASAP. TD, what you think about the maid?
Kill her subtly?

Okay. I thought that maybe that Khamûl could make a single cut on Lily's cheek, knowing her beauty is important to her. Both excuses could be the same. Walking outside the cityat night and attacked by wolves, before Khamûl drew his sword and killed them. I will edit it if needs be.

Originally Posted by Rian

TD - can you elaborate on your answer to 4? Is it total carte blanche with any idea, or does the strength vary depending upon how it matches up with the person's inclination? And does it eventually "wear off" for things that are not just one-time things? (a one-time thing would be "Sneeze now!", as opposed to "sneeze every 10 minutes for the rest of your life" ). Can it be done anytime, anywhere, or does it have to be under special circumstances? (IOW, can Khamul walk by Arastud in the broad daylight and think into his head, "Go dump Annawen!", and Arastud will do it, or does he have to get Arastud into darkness and alone, like how Gordis was quoting how their power is greater in darkness, and suggest it then?)

IMO it would take a certain amount of effort, but the amount of time and effort would vary with what you were trying to make them to do. At the reception where both Khamûl and Oreteurion planted thoughts in Marty's mind, but they were not to do major things, like it would be to kill someone. For Khamûl to penetrate Arastud's mind and tell him to dump Annawen would take longer, because it would directly contradict his own will, whereas with Marty at the Reception they weren't particularly things his own will was directly against doing. Does that make sense?

[Rían]

Gordis, Sane and TD - thanks for your input; that's pretty much along the lines I was thinking, too. Except that I don't think they could persuade someone to kill someone else that they didn't want to kill. Remember, Sauron is an Ainu; the ringwraiths are NOT.

(except when I said "dump", I didn't mean kill, I meant breaking off the engagement - I'm trying to make CS happy! )

I'd like to wait and hear from Val and Earniel on the 6 questions, because they're major players that have been in on it from day 1, but it's looking like we're coming to some common ground here

[Gordis]

TD!!! , Don't cut Lilly's face! She needs her beauty to do her task. The Captain will have your head for it!

It your wrath needs an outlet, just use her bottom again.... (But I can't predict CS's reaction!!!)

[Rían]

(Gor, I had an edit - please re-check my post above yours)

(Sane, check out my PM for a good laugh!)