The Singers Thread

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I think the quintuple whammy of stress, less than optimal sleep and sleep amounts, over singing, working my high range so much in lessons, and probably allergies is what did me in and is why it's taking my voice so long to recover.

Oh, that'll do it. Especially the stress. Nothing like stress to cause a tight voice.

If i'm stressed, forget it. But other kinds of emotions, those that you'd think would really trash the voice, somehow, sometimes, do not. I recently have been crying a lot due to some personal stuff going on, and i always expect my voice to be a wreck after a good cry, but oddly enough, it's not. This week i had the best practice session i've had in a long time, only hours after having a good cry. I don't understand it, because you'd think under those conditions there would be untold swelling of the cords, stuffed sinuses, you name it - but that wasn't the case. I can only imagine that it had something to do with psychological release, and also the fact that i was in a state of heightened physical awareness of the support (the sobbing muscles). But conditions were just right for my voice to be freer at that time than it's been in weeks.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Well, you know I had a long conversation tonight with my friend about all of that and some of my other doubts and fears... and what I still feel like it boils down to is that I just can't make mistakes like this. Because there is someone out there better than I am, who wants this even more than I do, and who is going to be luckier than I am... and if I want to compete with them I have to not make mistakes. It's impossible to be perfect, but there's a difference between doing something not quite right and making an outright, stupid mistake like I did.


Unfortunately our conversation was very illuminating, but it wasn't really comforting persay... which I wasn't really looking for comfort, so that's fine, but it just makes me realize how far I still have to go. He pretty much agreed that today in rehearsal my voice was thin, tired, small, and that I was over-driving it in an attempt to compensate for being exhausted and having so little voice to work with. And frankly I can't help but wonder if I even have that much voice even when I am healthy. It's pretty friggin' depressing, but that doesn't mean I have the slightest intention of giving up . I'll get over it.

It just confirms that I need to do some recordings of my voice with decent equipment.

I don't disagree with any of this, and i wasn't there to see how bad it was. All i have to go on is that you're very young, and sometimes things like this happen when we're very young, and we learn from them and move on. It sounds like you've done just that.

[Tessar]

I'm sorry to hear that you're having some personal problems . Never fun.

I lucked out today... we just worked on the set instead of doing any actual rehearsing, so I got to rest my voice. It was wonderful .

I think one thing that I've got to get control of is my fear that my voice is too small to be heard, so I blow it out trying to get volume... which also makes me flat. That's going to be my focus now, when I perform/rehearse/etc. is relaxing into my sound somewhat.



One thing my friend and I discussed is that I believe there are sort of two 'levels' of singing... one is Academic, and the other is Professional. A lot of the singers at my college are great Academic singers. They sing very beautifully, and it's a nice voice. But you wouldn't hire them to sing. Or at least I wouldn't . I can honestly say that I like to listen to them sing... but I'd never hire them.

The Professional level is, obviously, what I hope to achieve. I feel like I'm doing okay on an Academic level. Like you said, I am very young and I need to keep that in mind... but I've got to get really good so I can get into a good grad school. Grr.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Never fun.

No, not fun at all.

I've got to get control of is my fear that my voice is too small to be heard

Yes, get over that, and get over it right now ANY voice is 'big enough to be heard' if it's well-produced. Just keep refining your technique and you'll be fine!

I feel like I'm doing okay on an Academic level. Like you said, I am very young and I need to keep that in mind... but I've got to get really good so I can get into a good grad school. Grr.

"Academic" is fine for a 21 year old Some of that 'professional' sound comes from physical maturity, too Even when they hear you for grad auditions, it'll be about the difference between "good academic level singing" and "very good academic level with potential for professional level singing". It's the latter that will get in.

And while it's your choice, of course, think about grad school in these terms: Do i really need it??? Unless you want to teach voice on the college level, or for whatever reason just want to challenge yourself and get your master's, you won't need it. What really matters for professional auditions is that your technique and presentation are polished, and that you can sing well. More degrees do not a professional singer make. You can in fact get everything you need from private study (voice lessons, coachings, voice lessons, acting classes, voice lessons, theory and musicianship study, voice lessons, movement study, voice lessons.... you get the picture) once you're beyond your bachelor's. Here's an anecdote for you, from my teacher: she has a friend who is both a college voice teacher and a professional singer. Her advanced degrees have actually kept her from being hired to sing at times. Because of this, she now has two resumes - one for teaching, with her master's and PhD on it, and one for singing... without. By all means, check this against your own team of trusted professionals. I would not talk someone out of getting their master's, if they want it, but this is just some food for thought And if you want to teach on the college level, then by all means, get it - you can't do that without it.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

"Academic" is fine for a 21 year old Some of that 'professional' sound comes from physical maturity, too Even when they hear you for grad auditions, it'll be about the difference between "good academic level singing" and "very good academic level with potential for professional level singing". It's the latter that will get in.

You know, it's funny... I've done a lot of soul-searching today, and I think a big part of it is that I'm just getting way, way too uptight about the whole thing.

I feel differently now about the conversation my friend and I had, and I actually feel much more encouraged by it. I keep forgetting that the people who are making to the Met are either young super-talents, or people in their 40's. I wont sound like those singers till I'm as old as they are, since I'm no super-talent, but like you said a lot of that professional sound comes from maturity so long as you don't slack off.



Speaking of getting your Masters, I keep forgetting that people have told me things similar to what you just said.

I'm really sort of waffling about what I should do when I get out of school in two and a half years.

Every single teacher that I've spoken to recently has told me to stay the hell away from any teaching positions unless I change my mind about a career. They say that teaching can wreck your voice. Not in the sense of losing range, but that the constant speaking takes the 'bloom' off of your voice... so if you just want to be a really good singer, you can definitely teach and perform, but if you want to be in top condition you can't.

Geeze, I don't know what to do . I do feel like I need that education degree, but at the same time I don't want to put myself into a situation where I'll handicap myself from achieving my true dream.

If I'm ready to start auditioning for stuff right out of college, then I don't know that I need to worry about that so much... then it's a question of 'will anyone hire me?' (which is actually ALSO really terrifying ) instead of 'how much longer till I can start to audition?'.



All of this, and the thinking I've done the last few days, has made me realize that I need to create a much more specific plan for myself. I have my goals, and a lot of great suggestions from professionals, and I have a general idea of how to achieve those things but I need to make better plans to actually reach those things. I need to write it down on paper to make it more concrete in my head.

[Tessar]

Once again instead of having an opportunity to shine, or in this case just make up in some tiny measure for my colossal stupidity... I looked like an ass.

I slept through my alarm because I'm freaking exhausted, was 15 minutes late for the early rehearsal for The Heavens Are Telling, and then was flat the first service I sang it at... and I think he was just generally dissatisfied with how I sang it.

We had a brief conversation where I just explained how sorry I was, etc. and he said that he understands that I'm spread very thin right now. So I just said that I understood that what had happened was unacceptable and how sorry I was, and we basically left it at that.

I think I just really, really screwed myself, though . I friggin' cried in the car on the way there because I was so angry at myself.

I'm going back to bed now because I am completely exhausted and my voice is more trashed than ever.

[Jonathan]

Where does the "colossal stupidity" fit in your story? As I've interpreted what you just said, you did poorly because you were exhausted?

Don't be too harsh on yourself

[Voronwen]

Tessar..... *sigh*

You really need to calm down! One local church job is not going to kill your whole future.

I repeat...

One local church job is not going to kill your whole future.

There. *sigh* I never use red, as it's such a harsh color, unless i really, really mean it. I think the last time i used red was to say how much i hated Sauron.

[Varnafindë]

Tessar -

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Don't be too harsh on yourself

I second that.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

I second that.

Obvious third!!!

There's also something to be said for being too nervous about something and then defeating yourself. Do keep that in mind!

[Tessar]

I don't want to get fired, because this is a great job which actually offers me opportunities to work on the skills that I'll need professionally. It also pays extremely well for very few hours (I guess I work about 5 1/2 hours a week).

But my real guilt is that I feel like I totally failed to meet my own standards for professionalism. I mean if I had made this mistake in even a simi-professional opera setting I would probably have been fired on the spot for the first mistake of not having the music ready, and if not for that then definitely the second one of being 15 minutes late for the 'pre-show' rehearsal just because I slept in by accident.

Anywho... I think my voice is actually quite a bit better today. I got some decent sleep last night, so I'm not so exhausted... still really tired, but at least today is a short day.

Apparently I'm singing with my palate really, really dropped though. I'm trying to figure out how to keep it consistently raised. My male teacher was saying that it's one thing I really need because when I keep my palate raised my voice is much 'bigger' and I sound like an almost fully matured voice, but when it drops I sound like a 20 year old Junior Voice Major .

So I'm going to try a couple of things... the yawn sensation, although I think that might make me sing too 'back' and woofy (which I don't want, obviously), the hung-ah exercise, and a friend suggested I try snorting to get the sensation of the palate raising.

I think I can raise it fine, the problem is I don't know how to keep it from dropping.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

But my real guilt is that I feel like I totally failed to meet my own standards for professionalism.

I do understand, really. I also understand the concern over not wanting to get fired. But we just don't like to see you get so down on yourself.

Anywho... I think my voice is actually quite a bit better today. I got some decent sleep last night, so I'm not so exhausted... still really tired, but at least today is a short day.

This is good. Put in your short day and then go take some time off! It sounds like you really need some Tessar time. Remember (and i know that when you're on the career path, this is hard) that there's so much more to you as a whole being than just your singing. All of those other things that make you who you are need to be nurtured, too. Everything that makes you who you are as a person comes together to inform who you are as a singer Never forget that. So, go... rest the voice, and rest the mind.

Apparently I'm singing with my palate really, really dropped though.

Hmmmm... I wonder how this has managed to happen. All i can think of is that you didn't develop the habit firmly enough back when you were a beginner. That's ok though, there's no time like the present.

So I'm going to try a couple of things... the yawn sensation, although I think that might make me sing too 'back' and woofy (which I don't want, obviously), the hung-ah exercise, and a friend suggested I try snorting to get the sensation of the palate raising.

I think I can raise it fine, the problem is I don't know how to keep it from dropping.

Yes, this sounds like a habit thing. Work on building the habit, and remember that these things take time

I had the same issue when i was in school. I knew how to raise my palette, but the habit didn't stick at first. In my case it was because my voice is placed so high that i didn't need the palette raised to be able to reach high notes. So i didn't see it as 'a problem' But once i got it in place, along with the support and all, yeah.... i went from having a very young, 'good student' sound to sounding like a mature singer. It was the frosting on the cake.

I found that what worked for me was to just think about it consciously every time i sang. Every time. Eventually like with any habit, it becomes second nature. But these trouble areas are also the first thing to go when we're nervous, or when we have our minds too heavily bogged down with other things.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

I do understand, really. I also understand the concern over not wanting to get fired. But we just don't like to see you get so down on yourself.

Thanks. I still feel crappy about it, and unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to shake it till I feel that I've managed to make up for it in some way. We'll see.

Hmmmm... I wonder how this has managed to happen. All i can think of is that you didn't develop the habit firmly enough back when you were a beginner. That's ok though, there's no time like the present.

It was never really stressed to me before. I've had people say to get my palate up, and I've realized that it was a problem, but I never realized just how much... and especially now it seems to be down more often than it used to be. I suspect it's just a deficient section of my technique that needs fixing. I'll mention to my teacher that I want to really drill it tomorrow.

I'll also ask her to back off of the high range stuff for tomorrow, because my voice was definitely better today and I don't want to turn around and screw it right back up again tomorrow by trying to sing a bunch of high notes. No G#'s for me, please .



Know what I discovered today? I think despite some instructions in the past not to put my jaw forward when I open my mouth, I believe I've been jutting my jaw forward slightly. I think that's also part of why I couldn't hum above a C#... till I was told to put an 'ah' inside of my hum. The 'ah' caused my jaw to drop a little, which probably brought things a little bit back into line.

I'll talk to my teacher about it tomorrow, but this morning when I did some warming up and a few minutes of singing I noticed that when I did the jaw down and back like I read in some article the other day that my voice seemed better connected and my airflow was much more comfortable.

I played around with it... when I put my jaw forward the voice gets tight, when I shove it back it gets throaty... but gently down and back seems to connect my voice nicely. I ALSO noticed that my vowels actually feel easier to 'shape' through that jaw position. I guess tomorrow we'll see if that article was correct .

Keeping the palate up didn't really seem to work too well... got to talk to the teacher about it, but I think I'm just making my voice dark and losing my placement rather than actually getting a genuinely 'lifted palate' going on.

[Tessar]

I finally got to see my male voice teacher again, since I haven't seen him since before school started...

and OMG HOLY CRAP!!! O_o He friggin' fixed my voice AGAIN!!!

I was singing, and he said, "You know, the one thing I don't understand is how you can be singing a phrase and literally sound like a mature, professional singer for about two seconds and then suddenly you sound like a college student, and then you're a professional, and then a college student again, and then every once in a while it sounds bad... lets figure this out."

So we're singing again, and he says, "I just realized how tightly you really do sing. This time when you sing the Eb, I want you to make it breathy."

BOOM! The minute he said that, it totally clicked in my brain and I slapped my forehead. I don't know how I didn't see it before... if it's tight, then you have to not just try to loosen it up, you have to actually go in the complete opposite direction to undo the bad habit.

Suddenly I was popping out my high notes and soaring through high-lying phrases... obviously not perfectly, but SO MUCH improved! I never realized before that the reason my voice flips back and forth so much is because I try to keep it full and non-breathy... and by doing that I've tightened up my throat. So when I pretend that I'm about to sing the note breathy, my throat just opens right up.

THAT'S the 'wall' I keep hitting. I yank back on the breath, or if I don't do that then I tighten the throat in an attempt to keep the sound 'pure and forward'... when I imagine it breathy everything pops nicely into place.

I tell you what... not to be too egotistic, but I sang some freaking -amazing- Eb4's today. Which isn't particularly high, but oh my God... the resonance, the ping, and the shimmer of the tone were unbelievable. I didn't realize I could make sounds like that.

God I friggin' love this man. He's AWESOME .

[Varnafindë]

I'm glad to see you happy again, Tessar. It's awesome to see how that teacher helps you to find what there really is in your voice!

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

I'm glad to see you happy again, Tessar.

Weirdly enough, I feel like this awesome vocal improvement is like a form of atonement for my mistake. I feel like I have more to offer now professionally. I still feel really guilty about the whole thing, but less so than before because I feel more capable of 'making up' for it now.

It's awesome to see how that teacher helps you to find what there really is in your voice!

I tell you, it just absolutely kills me that I can't have this guy as my official teacher. We're labeling him 'coach' for now, but... argh. It just seems a little stupid... I mean he just -taught- me how to sing so much better. He's not just a coach, and we both know that, but I think it probably makes both of us feel better to say that he's just a coach.

[Voronwen]

It's awesome to see how that teacher helps you to find what there really is in your voice!

I can't second that enough!!!

It sounds like some of the issues with tightness may have to do with your jaw, but the breakthrough you had with your "coach" today is even more telling. You may have had some pressed phonation going on (did he mention this?) and as a result, your voice was sounding smaller and less brilliant than you knew it should.

Isn't it wonderful to have such a breakthrough?

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

It sounds like some of the issues with tightness may have to do with your jaw, but the breakthrough you had with your "coach" today is even more telling. You may have had some pressed phonation going on (did he mention this?) and as a result, your voice was sounding smaller and less brilliant than you knew it should.

My coach likes to say that I already have great technique, I just don't know how to get at it. I can pick things up from him almost instantly... but I think a great deal of that simply has to do with him being an amazing teacher, and my only real 'effort' involved is that I'm absolutely fearless of trying whatever it takes to get the sound and I will say that I'm not the most focused person that I know, but I do know how to 'bulldog' it when I want to. i.e. get totally single-minded and zero in on something for a lengthy period of time.

I tell you what... he was kidding when he said it, but if I ever do get to the Met I really am gonna give my coach 10% of whatever I make . This guy is just unbelievable.

I'm really excited to work my voice today... I hope that with this new air thing I can work out some of my music in a more satisfactory fashion.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I think a great deal of that simply has to do with him being an amazing teacher

Sometimes that is truly the case. Some are just so gifted.... The teacher that i credit with building and solidifying the technique that is still the basis of what i use to this day was one of these kinds of teachers. Everyone in her studio had major breakthroughs on a regular basis, and everyone sounded good (ie. young professional). She was the cat's meow!

I'm really excited to work my voice today... I hope that with this new air thing I can work out some of my music in a more satisfactory fashion.

Have fun Let us know how it goes.

[Tessar]

Blech, I'm going to try to do two days of vocal rest. Wish I could make it three, but choir on Sunday wont really allow for that. I'll try to sing as little as I possibly can on Sunday.

Today my voice was just... blech. I don't think I ever recovered fully from last week, and I didn't realize till I told my voice teacher everything just what an insane amount of singing I've been doing.

The good news is my throat doesn't hurt, but the bad news is that I have a very limited 'dynamic' range and I'm just... flat. My voice is heavy and I can't pull it up. We discussed it, and my teacher thinks that my technique is probably good, but I've just done too much singing... so nothing is 'hurt' but my cords are probably swollen. I vocalized up to a G4 today anyways, so... still improvements I guess .

So I just went ahead and told the choir and opera directors that my voice teacher had 'insisted' I not sing at all for the next two days... which covered me at today's rehearsal, will cover me for choir tomorrow, rehearsal tomorrow, and then rehearsal on Saturday.


It's just so hard not to let this stuff screw with my brain, you know? I'm constantly wondering if I have what it takes to be a professional singer under the best of circumstances, and it's incredibly difficult not to see life in shades of gray when my voice is out. So oh well. I'll try to take this time to work on other musical aspects.

My teacher seems to think I have a really good shot at the baritone role for next semester's opera (something one of the composition teachers wrote) so maybe I'll try to start looking at that stuff.