Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Udukhaturz]

"1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?
2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?
3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?" - Gordis

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Possibly.

[Gordis]

I get a definite impression that very few of us have time and patience even to read this extensive posting in Discussion thread, much less reply to it. I certainly have not enough time to reply to all that should be replied. I feel some of us have way too much free time (Oh, how I envy them!).I propose to stop all these endless general discussions and start (if necessary) discuss particulars. Otherwise the Discussion Thread will be all that is left from the game.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I get a definite impression that very few of us have time and patience even to read this extensive posting in Discussion thread, much less reply to it. I certainly have not enough time to reply to all that should be replied. I feel some of us have way too much free time (Oh, how I envy them!).I propose to stop all these endless general discussions and start (if necessary) discuss particulars. Otherwise the Discussion Thread will be all that is left from the game.

I second this. I AGREE!!!

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I have edited my post #417, to show the mental effect Khamûl's work had had on him. I've also said that the memory would soon come back to her, but I'll edit that if needs be.

[Butterbeer]

very good post Gordis, skillfully done...

the only thing i would consider looking at is the total certaintly ML has that the king does not have the ring nor know of it ... i am sure he would know of it ... and i do not think he can be 100% sure he does not have it ... somewhere ... some uncertainty there is no bad thing and certainly good for story purposes ..

plus i'd like to see the captain take some control and warn of erring actions etc .... but surely that will come later??

yes, i agree, lets agree on what we can agree on, and move on .... let's note the concerns about nazgul powers getting in the future out of hand if not given some checks now and spend more time on the rpg!

... been meaning to post for a while

best all, BB

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

oh yeah - I already suggested one of the horses get skittish, but not Volcirom he's already used to Viv. Does anyone read what I say here? I suggested this like 3 times, Rian.

Yes, I read what you say, but there's just so much that I sometimes forget who said what. I wasn't saying that you didn't say that, either I was just suggesting that we come to a consensus before we write about horses running off. I like the skittish idea, but I don't know if everyone else has accepted that yet.

[Gordis]

Lotesse, May I ask you to do some edits in the Main thread?

#428 "Ilmenzor assisted the contrite and battered Lilly"
No way he will assist Lilly. Let Penny carry her.

"while Udu, Aiwendis, Tolvadok and the Morgul Lord began an earnest and important discussion."
Please take away Aiwendis.
Aiwendis will sit quietly in a corner.

Who is she? Number Eight, nothing more. Among the Nine she must in no way look something like the Queen. The Morgul Lord is their King, she is just Number Eight. And some even despise her for being the Captain's mistress (like Tolvadok).

Serenoli, I ask you to edit your post #435, just because of the same reason.
"The Morgul Lord was seated near the center of the room, with Gordis near him, as usual".
That is not a behaviour she adopts when among the Nine. She knows her place.
And SORRY for not explaining it earlier. My fault entiely.

[Butterbeer]

isn't serenoli away for a few days, 4 days or so?

yeah, i had a coupla things i'd like her to look at in that post too, ...

yeah lotesse, i noticed too, but i also asked rian to not go ahead unilaterally, which she kindly did, till we agree

so: again simple question: are we agreed to keep animal reaction pretty much as is for rpg practicality with the odd unease post being fine for realism?

YES or NO only please.

final point ... YES or NO only please., again :

do we agree not to go TOO far with Nazgul powers?

and if invisable they are somewhat more vulnerable to being noticed?

that's YES or NO only please.

cheers!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

the only thing i would consider looking at is the total certaintly ML has that the king does not have the ring nor know of it ... i am sure he would know of it ... and i do not think he can be 100% sure he does not have it ... somewhere ... some uncertainty there is no bad thing and certainly good for story purposes ..

plus i'd like to see the captain take some control and warn of erring actions etc .... but surely that will come later??

yes, i agree, lets agree on what we can agree on, and move on .... let's note the concerns about nazgul powers getting in the future out of hand if not given some checks now and spend more time on the rpg!

... been meaning to post for a while

best all, BB

I agree, I agree.
I always agree if the thing is asked nicely for the benefit of the RPG, and not argued as the pure canon, which it isn't. That makes me wanting to argue and argue and that will be the end of it all.

Re: uncertainty about Ring's whereabouts. I can put some. What do other think??



Udu, other nazgul, BB, I have no RL forces to write another big post today. So, please, continue along the lines of my PM and with your own ideas and story embelishments. Please post the end of the Morgul Lord's speech. Don't forget the admonishment, as BB says. Please, help. I am drained and all the other players wait for us to finish the night.

And the maid should be dealt with sometime very soon.

[Butterbeer]

ah well, night all! really must get a post up tommorow!

looking forward to the race!

[Lotesse]

Only on for a sec - just want to put this out there

Why aren't the female Nazgul just as equal amongst their male counterparts?

Why?

Why do Tolvadok & Udu get to be speaking with and get taken seriously by ML yet the women are shunted as meek, nothing-to-input background figures? I don't like this at all. This is my opinion. All the Nazgul should be considered just as important as the other - except #1 and #2, who have seniority. I don't like that Aiwendis has to sit in a corner, and that Lilly isn't being taken seriously and I also do not plan on Viv always remaining a sandwich-getting childlike yes-girl all the time, either.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

so: again simple question: are we agreed to keep animal reaction pretty much as is for rpg practicality with the odd unease post being fine for realism?

YES or NO only please.

Yes. The other questions you present, though, leave still far too much up to determine. How far is too far? What is what, for Nazgul powers - oughtn't we outline them all so there's no more ambiguity?

[The last sane person]

True, but really, that will come down to the individual players and what they got out of the book.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Only on for a sec - just want to put this out there

Why aren't the female Nazgul just as equal amongst their male counterparts?

Why?

Why do Tolvadok & Udu get to be speaking with and get taken seriously by ML yet the women are shunted as meek, nothing-to-input background figures? I don't like this at all. This is my opinion. All the Nazgul should be considered just as important as the other - except #1 and #2, who have seniority. I don't like that Aiwendis has to sit in a corner, and that Lilly isn't being taken seriously and I also do not plan on Viv always remaining a sandwich-getting childlike yes-girl all the time, either.

Background figures? No! The way we portray them they are not background figures. Here they are crucial.

But, yes, I believe some of this superiority feeling is present in nazgul men, because the girls got rings that were never meant for them. Sauron was not happy to see them at all, instead of the Kings he meant to ensnare. They are nazgul only by mistake.
Easterlings just think women are lower than men, in general. ML is not supposed to be gentlemanly towards his underlings. That's why he will not help lilly on the stairs. Gor is equal to others, but she will not sit next to the Captain, as if she had the right for it. She is not his queen.

That is how I see it. Just being realistic.

[Lotesse]

One of THE main reasons why all the way back going to Fellowship, I was attracted so much to the idea of playing a Female Nazgul, because they'd be "in it together," all of them, EQUAL man 2 woman, king to non-king, for better or for worse, Unlife being The Great Equaliser. Excepting The Morgul Lord, who is our leader. Khamul is more powerful than the rest of us, but he is not the Morgul Lord. Eventually, if they feel like it, any other Nazgul could learn all the stuff that makes Khamul so big & bad. The only thing extra he has going for him besides his extraordinary capacity for good old-fashioned cruelty is that he's the Morgul Lord's best friend, and second to him in seniority. And - were Tolvadok and Udu once Kings, great Kings of Men? I'm unclear on this. No matter how each Nazgul initially acquired his or her ring, now that each has one, it shouldn't matter who is Easterling or woman or once was a mortal king or not, because if they are all Nazgul and the only Nazgul on planet Middle Earth, shouldn't they only be snobby toward NON-Nazgul - not each other, regardless of race or sex?

And about "she knows her place" - well, the only "place" Viv knows is that she must defer to the Morgul Lord and to Sauron, and OUT OF SHEER NECESSITY since he's such a powerful and unpredictably cruel "older" Nazgul, Khamul, but don't assume for a moment that one of these days in the not-too-distant future Viv won't be educated well enough in the fine-dark-arts to do as much damage to Khamul as he could do to HER. She will not defer to Tolvadok, Udu, Five or Lilly just because they are "older" than her, or are men, or whatever. She will address them and consider them as her EQUALS. EQUALS. Easterling or no.

[Rían]

Go Viv!!!!!

[Rían]

*goes around and gathers things together*

OK, here's Gordis's 3 questions, my 1 question, and BB's 2 questions :

1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind?

2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY?

3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night?

4. Do you believe and accept that certain people can implant thoughts in another person's mind that impels them to do something, either in accord or out of accord with what they would naturally do?

5. Are we agreed to keep animal reaction pretty much as is for rpg practicality with the odd unease post being fine for realism?

6. Forgetting actual parameters at this point, is there general agreement in priniciple to not go TOO far with nazgul powers?


So far, we have (roughly):

Question 1 - Udu:no; CS:no; Rian:no; Lotesse:yes; BB:no; TD:no; Sane:no; Gordis:no
Question 2 - Udu:yes; CS: yes; Rian:yes; Lotesse: yes; BB:yes*; TD:yes; Sane:yes; Gordis:yes
Question 3 - Udu:yes*; CS:yes*; Rian:yes; Lotesse:yes; BB:bb:yes*; TD:yes; Sane:yes*; Gordis:yes
Question 4 - Udu:maybe; Rian-yes*; BB:yes*; TD:yes*; Sane:;yes*; Gordis:yes*
Question 5 - Udu:yes; Rian-yes; BB:yes; TD:yes; Sane:yes; Gordis:yes
Question 6 - Udu:yes; Rian-yes; BB:yes; TD:yes; Sane:yes; Gordis:yes

(where yes* means conditionally yes- there are limits)

Also TD posted to limit Nazgul power, and it varies according to rank, and to have some animal reaction. I didn't quite know how to put that into those 5 questions, tho, so TD, would you mind answering the 5 questions?

And others, too, just so we can have some type of comparison, please answer the 5 questions? I'll go ahead and be the one to compile the answers, because I have tomorrow pretty free - yay!!!! I've been so busy these past 2 months I haven't touched my harp (my mom's played for 15 years and I finally picked it up a few years ago and LOVE it!!!) and things have finally eased up.

I think with the answers to these questions, we can lay down some ground rules that are pretty much agreed upon. I'm just doing this compiling and ordering thing because I happen to have time now, NOT because I want to run it!, but please let me know if you guys want me to do this differently.

[Butterbeer]

1) no - but she may well go for the alcohol and just be very confused and want to blank it from her own mind as much as possible: so effectively to the question should she be killed; no! she will be confused and with time it will be put down to a mix of illness and alcohol.

2) generally no, but i'll go with it, so yes *

3) potentially yes, but with no certainty of knowing just what he finds

4) yes, but much easier if in accord and only for shorter periods unless they are broken: if really very much against what they would do: very very hard, at risk of failure, or breaking the mind

5) yes (full stop)

6) QUESTION forgetting actual parameters at this point, is there general agreement in priniciple to not go TOO far with nazgul powers?

BB:yes, Lotesse, yes (wants clarification), TD: yes

well, theres a few asterixes (*) for you Rian!

good luck with the counting!

Lotesse: i think gor just wanted to play her character as quiet and not wanting to flaunt her status as mistress to the captain as a power trip.

Lilly and Viv can be as equal as they want, that has always been my take ... Viv just happened to be getting some food just then, it may have been Buz in a pink pinny ... so i wouldn't read too much into that ...

it is not unreasonable character wise that some male chavuinism exists in that world .... but as you say as nazgul it need not be so important - you are a nazgul first and a lady second.

(except to Ray! )

but each will see it differently i guess...

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by BB

Lotesse: i think gor just wanted to play her character as quiet and not wanting to flaunt her status as mistress to the captain as a power trip.

Lilly and Viv can be as equal as they want, that has always been my take ... Viv just happened to be getting some food just then, it may have been Buz in a pink pinny ... so i wouldn't read too much into that ...

it is not unreasonable character wise that some male chavuinism exists in that world .... but as you say as nazgul it need not be so important - you are a nazgul first and a lady second.

(except to Ray! )

but each will see it differently i guess...

That is exactly what I wanted to say. Thanks BB!


Udu, Awesome post. You kept the Captain's character exactly as I see him. Please, feel free to include more of his words in your future posts. I give you my special permission.

Rian, I will answer questions when I have slightly more time.

For now we all have to end this meeting. Please, post! CS!, BB? will you bring Boom? Now?
I am off but be back in couple hours.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Strange post, Val. First you express your frustration with just about everything, then ask a minor question about Udu. I will do as you suggest.

I gather your replies to my questionnaire are no, no and yes?

What is really wrong with you, Val? Yes, the King's position is precarious. But more is the fun. Can't you just think of some counter-plots and counter-measures?

Was it really? It was mostly responding to things I had been asked after my post #150 in this thread. As for the one about Udu - I had been thinking of that ever since Udu arrived, and even thought about working it into the Reception, but I got... distracted.

As to 'Questionnaire Questions' - not sure and with a lot of qualifiers. Mostly didn't want to start voting out of concern that the votes would quickly split along 'party lines' (all the Nazgul voting one way and all the rest voting the other). Perhaps something else to consider is my point about doing these things while casually keeping three other Nazgul all wrapped up. If THAT was a hint of what I might encounter later in the game, it seemed troublesome.

I have some counter-plots in mind - but wanted to see about a 'check' at the other end before I decided how much to implement.

And really - if the Nazgul are ALREADY onto the idea that the One Ring isn't with Valandil, and is likely in the Anduin River, aren't they robbing themselves of 3000 years of suspense?