Eowyn or Arwen? - Page 12

Wulažg · 05-19-2002, 01:54 PM

I have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it

. I know that sounds pretty bad but it is hard enough trying to show it to someone when I can point out examples, but it's almost impossible to explain like this. Plus I don't have my 150 page dissertation and my English teacher still has my 10-page essay which I never typed up since it used a lot of elvish i it and I didn't have a Tengwar font at the time. Sorry

afro-elf · 05-19-2002, 03:07 PM

In that case i don't think you'll mind if i stay doubtful

actually i don't think i'd like either one. they are two VERY high maintence women.

and they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME

if they were the same personally but low maintence i'd be torn

eowyn would be cool cause she'd be up for adventure however she is bit of an ice maiden and i don't think a sensitive male would be suffered by her. ( maybe she softened up in the houses of the healing)

arwen is stunning but a house body but also willing to sacrifice all for love ( immortality for mortality) one could find comfort in her arms

at this point in my life i would choose low maintaince arwen ( i still like the character of eowyn better

Christiana · 05-19-2002, 10:33 PM

Whooo......
Anti feminest, arnt U?

Mirahzi · 05-19-2002, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME

Aragorn is definetely the most powerful, but Faramir has got some competition for 2nd most noble/powerful.. Eomer's easily got a shot at 2nd..

Also... Eowyn an ice maiden? She was pretty hot for Aragorn.. And, she warmed up to Faramir..

I think I've wandered astray..

BeardofPants · 05-19-2002, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christiana
Whooo......
Anti feminest, arnt U?

I don't think that's quite what he meant.

Radagast The Brown · 05-20-2002, 02:22 PM

Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer.

afro-elf · 05-20-2002, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Anti feminest, arnt U?

Me? If so please explain your reasoning

Quote:

Aragorn is definetely the most powerful, but Faramir has got some competition for 2nd most noble/powerful.. Eomer's easily got a shot at 2nd..

Quote:

Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer.

AS FOR FARAMIR

1) eowyn notes that NO man in her country could match him in arms
2) eomer is a middle man. The blood of Numenor is strong within Faramir giving him greater powers of mind and flesh
3) third powerful is not relagated soley to physical might. He is the steward of the reunited kingdom. aragorn's #1 man.

You also for get that the blood of elves and numenor flow through the lords of dol amorth
faramirs mom was imrahil's sister so faramir has CLOSER elven blood in his veins than even Aragorn. ( imrazor the numenorean and mithrellas)

i like eomer however he is not faramir's match in arms, mind, or nobility

eowyn says so herself

Quote:

Also... Eowyn an ice maiden? She was pretty hot for Aragorn.. And, she warmed up to Faramir..

it is not a necessary or sufficent link that because she likes aragorn that she i not an ice maiden. I don't think someone would would describe her as a person who is full of warmth, tenderness and compassion. who gushes over sappy stuff.

the same with faramir being attracted to someone does not mean that they still not reserved emotionally.

as a bad example margarent thatcher was married but i don't think you call her anything but an ice maiden

Wulažg · 05-20-2002, 07:54 PM

Now who's on the defenssive?

Anyway, you are correct in that Faramir could probably whoop Eomer.

Now we need another thing to argue about...
Eowyn being an ice maiden?
of course I don't really care since I am an Arwen fan...

afro-elf · 05-20-2002, 09:32 PM

wula g

I am still quite unconvinced about your ideas

Quote:

have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it . I know that sounds pretty bad

yes it does sound pretty bad

Quote:

Now we need another thing to argue about

Quote:

Eowyn being an ice maiden

others have stated their points so what are yours

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-20-2002, 09:40 PM

I would agree that Eowyn would be an ice maiden; and partly because her main reason for liking Aragorn is an escape. . .not that I blame her!

Wulažg · 05-21-2002, 01:20 PM

Eowyn has hardened herself to teh world and so I guess that is your definition of an "ice maiden"

How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around...

afro-elf · 05-21-2002, 03:59 PM

Quote:

How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around...

you can describe in detail

even though it will only be hearsay it will at least clarify

Snowdog · 05-21-2002, 04:16 PM

There is lots of deep discussion here on the two ladies of the Lord of the Rings. Being that this is the Books Forum, I would give Eowyn the credit for being determined and of having a deathwish of sorts. her infatuation with Aragorn at the Paths of the Dead was that she saw a way out of her life at home. For Theoden gave rule to her of the people left at home, and she shunned the responsibility to go off and fight. She may have had an infatuation for Aragorn, but it was Faramir who touched her heart in the end.

Is there really any discussion from the books the actual story of Arwen? If you include the Appendix telling of their betrothal, then yes, and at the time of Aragorn's meeting of Eowyn, he was in his honor already a married man. Who knows, being a mortal man, seeing Eowyn itn the sun he may have had a passing thought of 'what if...'

Wulažg · 05-23-2002, 12:04 PM

there waqs some implicit characterization of Arwen and of the relationship between her and Aragorn at Lothlorien, where Aragorn has a flashback and says "Arwen vanimelda, Namarie" and it actually says his feelings too.

Stalker in the Starlight · 06-20-2002, 03:25 PM

Mmmm...Eowyn, definitley. So many good arguments have already been made, all of them I can empathize with...
1) Eowyn didn't just sit around, waiting for a messenger to come back and say, "Oh, by the way, your uncle's been killed, he says bye." "Good boy, here's a quarter, well, I'm off to start digging his funeral mound."
2) Her story is beautiful, and easier to empathize with that the 'We're-holier-than-thou-we-were-born-first-you-are-all-scum-the-Valar-like-us-best-we-live-forever-our-ears-are-cooler-than-yours-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha' Elves: Her parents die, then her uncle is weakned by someone who lusts after her, and then, spurned on by unrequited love and the thought of her object of affection dying pointlessly, she takes it upon herself to abandon all rationality and die gloriously (if I remember correctly, one of her greatest fears was that she would fade to nothingness, which, sadly enough, she did in the end anyway).
Though I must say, I do beleive she and Faramir could have taken it a bit more slowly. And I HATED how she gave up her sword to become a healer...and Tolkien could at LEAST have graced us with the date of her death.
Arwen...we never hear anything about her life, or are given any really good reason to empathize with her 'situation'. How can I empathize with someone I know nothing about? Ok, granted the part where she goes off to Lorien to die alone is beautifully sad, but that's about all.
As for Eowyn being an 'ice maiden'? Aragorn himself talks about her being a lily touched by frost. So, I suppose she did have to harden herself to the world around her, and the world didn't exactly help her: as Gandalf said, to her, her place in the world seemed to be growing less and less each day. I know I would become pretty frosty, to hide my depression that I had no purpose, if nothing else.

Olegson · 06-21-2002, 06:26 PM

That's OK .
Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings.
You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul)

Mirahzi · 06-21-2002, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Olegson
That's OK .
Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings.
You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul)

How is she weak of soul?

BeardofPants · 06-21-2002, 06:47 PM

I'm thinking her death wish here for some reason.

Mirahzi · 06-21-2002, 06:51 PM

Many of the greatest warriors were a bit crazed and/or suicidal(i.e. Turin Turambar) .. but they weren't considered weak of soul..

Christiana · 06-22-2002, 12:03 AM

Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me.

05-19-2002, 01:54 PM	#221
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	I have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it . I know that sounds pretty bad but it is hard enough trying to show it to someone when I can point out examples, but it's almost impossible to explain like this. Plus I don't have my 150 page dissertation and my English teacher still has my 10-page essay which I never typed up since it used a lot of elvish i it and I didn't have a Tengwar font at the time. Sorry __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-19-2002, 03:07 PM	#222
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	In that case i don't think you'll mind if i stay doubtful actually i don't think i'd like either one. they are two VERY high maintence women. and they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME if they were the same personally but low maintence i'd be torn eowyn would be cool cause she'd be up for adventure however she is bit of an ice maiden and i don't think a sensitive male would be suffered by her. ( maybe she softened up in the houses of the healing) arwen is stunning but a house body but also willing to sacrifice all for love ( immortality for mortality) one could find comfort in her arms at this point in my life i would choose low maintaince arwen ( i still like the character of eowyn better __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

05-20-2002, 02:22 PM	#226
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-20-2002, 07:54 PM	#228
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Now who's on the defenssive? Anyway, you are correct in that Faramir could probably whoop Eomer. Now we need another thing to argue about... Eowyn being an ice maiden? of course I don't really care since I am an Arwen fan... __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-20-2002, 09:40 PM	#230
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I would agree that Eowyn would be an ice maiden; and partly because her main reason for liking Aragorn is an escape. . .not that I blame her! __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-19-2002, 10:33 PM	#223
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Whooo...... Anti feminest, arnt U?

05-21-2002, 01:20 PM	#231
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Eowyn has hardened herself to teh world and so I guess that is your definition of an "ice maiden" How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around... __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

05-21-2002, 04:16 PM	#233
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	There is lots of deep discussion here on the two ladies of the Lord of the Rings. Being that this is the Books Forum, I would give Eowyn the credit for being determined and of having a deathwish of sorts. her infatuation with Aragorn at the Paths of the Dead was that she saw a way out of her life at home. For Theoden gave rule to her of the people left at home, and she shunned the responsibility to go off and fight. She may have had an infatuation for Aragorn, but it was Faramir who touched her heart in the end. Is there really any discussion from the books the actual story of Arwen? If you include the Appendix telling of their betrothal, then yes, and at the time of Aragorn's meeting of Eowyn, he was in his honor already a married man. Who knows, being a mortal man, seeing Eowyn itn the sun he may have had a passing thought of 'what if...' __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-23-2002, 12:04 PM	#234
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	there waqs some implicit characterization of Arwen and of the relationship between her and Aragorn at Lothlorien, where Aragorn has a flashback and says "Arwen vanimelda, Namarie" and it actually says his feelings too. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO rule the world!

06-20-2002, 03:25 PM	#235
Stalker in the Starlight Hobbit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Right behind you! BOO! Posts: 24	Mmmm...Eowyn, definitley. So many good arguments have already been made, all of them I can empathize with... 1) Eowyn didn't just sit around, waiting for a messenger to come back and say, "Oh, by the way, your uncle's been killed, he says bye." "Good boy, here's a quarter, well, I'm off to start digging his funeral mound." 2) Her story is beautiful, and easier to empathize with that the 'We're-holier-than-thou-we-were-born-first-you-are-all-scum-the-Valar-like-us-best-we-live-forever-our-ears-are-cooler-than-yours-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha' Elves: Her parents die, then her uncle is weakned by someone who lusts after her, and then, spurned on by unrequited love and the thought of her object of affection dying pointlessly, she takes it upon herself to abandon all rationality and die gloriously (if I remember correctly, one of her greatest fears was that she would fade to nothingness, which, sadly enough, she did in the end anyway). Though I must say, I do beleive she and Faramir could have taken it a bit more slowly. And I HATED how she gave up her sword to become a healer...and Tolkien could at LEAST have graced us with the date of her death. Arwen...we never hear anything about her life, or are given any really good reason to empathize with her 'situation'. How can I empathize with someone I know nothing about? Ok, granted the part where she goes off to Lorien to die alone is beautifully sad, but that's about all. As for Eowyn being an 'ice maiden'? Aragorn himself talks about her being a lily touched by frost. So, I suppose she did have to harden herself to the world around her, and the world didn't exactly help her: as Gandalf said, to her, her place in the world seemed to be growing less and less each day. I know I would become pretty frosty, to hide my depression that I had no purpose, if nothing else. __________________ 'Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harevest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?' -Lament of the Rohirrim, II 132-33 ~CARPE DIEM!~

06-21-2002, 06:26 PM	#236
Olegson Hobbit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St.-Petersburg Posts: 17	Slow doun That's OK . Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings. You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul) __________________ -------------------------- If you're irish, write me.

06-21-2002, 06:47 PM	#238
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm thinking her death wish here for some reason. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

06-21-2002, 06:51 PM	#239
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Many of the greatest warriors were a bit crazed and/or suicidal(i.e. Turin Turambar) .. but they weren't considered weak of soul.. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

06-22-2002, 12:03 AM	#240
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

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