Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Rían]

*looks at Gwaimir's next post*

oooh, REALLY scary thought ....

[Coney]

OK, atheists, I have a request for you.

Stop your whirring brains from their whirring for a moment, and put aside your atheistic predeterminations. Pause for a moment, and relax. Then, think about it: what if there is a God? What if there is an eternal, omnipotent, omniscient Being without beginning or end; a Being which created the heavens and the earth, and everything in or on them, including Man. Take a moment to ponder the incredible nature of such a Being. Imagine how powerful, how great, how vast such a Being would be. Now, can you honestly say that you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there would be nothing about such a Being, which you, as his tiny creation, a speck upon the Earth, might be unable to understand? That there is no way there might be different rules of logic? which would apply to such a Being? Or even that your own understanding of logic might not completely accurate and infallible?

Dunno.....I'm not an atheist (or maybe I'm just a weak one ) I believe in the existance of God and many other dieties besides (be as much a horrible thought that all Jews and Christians end up "all dressed up and nowhere to go" as it would the rest of us being fuel for the fire) I just don't see any reason to respect or worship him *shrugs*....... Good post tho'....Atheists throw down you logic and reply

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

what is an atheist? ive heard it before but stupid public schools dont teach u anything on this subject..they do however not notice when in studyhall if u go on the computer on to this site

[Wayfarer]

Well, in the second or third century, a greek mob had a man named polycarp killed on the basis that he was an 'athiest'.
Polycarp was a christian.

LFA: Have you ever considered doing an independant study? That's what I did when I realized that public schools were commited to making an idiot out of me. I can't say it turned out badly.

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

hmm..ive done independant studies before....but the school is letting me take 11th grade math..=) (Im in 8th grade)

[Rían]

Well, I guess my public eductation is showing, Way - (hey, you called me Ri once ) - I have no idea what point you were trying to get across in the polycarp story....

LFA - a generally accepted definition would be: a person who believes that there is no god.

[Wayfarer]

No point, just the amusing tidbit that at one time christians were considered to be athiests.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Rian - Yes I am. BIG shocker, huh. Good point on the rewording thing, though.

LFA: Just for the record an Atheist is someone who does believe in a God, a Goddess, or any Gods or Goddesses.

EDIT: Accidentally wrote does instead of of does not.

[Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn]

ah ha~ thank you

[Coney]

LFA: Just for the record an Atheist is someone who does believe in a God, a Goddess, or any Gods or Goddesses.

What?

Atheist

\A"the*ist\, n. [Gr. ? without god; 'a priv. + ? god: cf. F. ath['e]iste.] 1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

2. A godless person. [Obs.]

Syn: Infidel; unbeliever.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Erm, oops. I meant someone who does NOT believe in a God, Goddess, Gods or Goddesses, of course. How silly of me.

[Rían]

*RÃ*an is relieved that she does NOT, after all, need reading glasses*

[Andúril]

RÃ*an:
LFA - a generally accepted definition would be: a person who believes that there is no god.

That's a generally accepted definition of strong atheism. It's a blatantly false blanket definition of "atheism" in a general sense.

You didn't read the thread at that link, did you? *Wags finger*

If you need me to elaborate, just say the words.

[Andúril]

Wayfarer:
No point, just the amusing tidbit that at one time christians were considered to be athiests.

Christians are still considered to be atheists.

[Andúril]

Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn:
what is an atheist? ive heard it before but stupid public schools dont teach u anything on this subject..

*snip*

Wayfarer:
*snip*

LFA: Have you ever considered doing an independant study? That's what I did when I realized that public schools were commited to making an idiot out of me.

*snip*

RÃ*an:
Well, I guess my public eductation is showing, Way - (hey, you called me Ri once ) - I have no idea what point you were trying to get across in the polycarp story....

Hey! There's nothing wrong with public schools -- look at me, I was educated at one...

*realizes their point has just been re-inforced and runs off to write another chapter of My experience with ghosts...*

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Andúril
If you need me to elaborate, just say the words.

I like to beat myself with sticks. Go ahead: edify me.

[Andúril]

BoP:
I like to beat myself with sticks.

I like to beat you with sticks too.

More:
Go ahead: edify me.

Well, since atheism is split up into at least two categories (strong and weak), it makes no sense to use the definition of the category that has characteristics which do not apply to the other, for the general, unspecific term "atheism".

What we can do is look for a common denominator between the two categories; something that defines a shared characteristic between the two, and use this definition for the general, unspecific term "atheism".

And that common denominator is definitely not "the belief that there is no God". That is strong atheism.

atheism = a (lack of/without) + theism (godbelief)

Strong atheism merely takes it further.

I don't think you read the thread at that link either. Conform!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Andúril
I don't think you read the thread at that link either. Conform!

Can't make me. Nyah.


I'm sorry but I don't see the difference between:

"the belief that there is no God"

and

a (lack of/without) + theism (godbelief)

Further, if the lack belief in a God is not the common denominator between strong and weak atheism, then what is? Are you defining "God" as the christian God? Is that it? In which case, I can kinda see where you've wobbled off to, but still...

It would be of great help to me, and possibly Rian, if you would be more detailed in your definations of weak vs strong atheism. Is weak atheism tending towards agnosticism?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I guess I'm not really a strong atheist...well, I don't believe in god, at least not the Christian/Jewish god, and I'm almost certain there isn't anything else out there either, but I'm also open to the idea of there being many gods--the Christian/Jewish one, and many others. It's that belief thing again, I think. Maybe not. Er. I'm not getting anywhere with this. It's getting rather late, I realize

Anyway, I guess I'll have to come back to this later, and answer Gwaimir's question tomorrow, then. Because I'd best be off to sleep as I have to get up when it's still technically morning tomorrow--wait, today. So I sleep on it, neh?

[Andúril]

BoP:
Can't make me. Nyah.

Oh yeah? *hits harder with sticks*

More:
I'm sorry but I don't see the difference between:

and

Okay, a brief summary. My fingers are sore.

Weak atheism

Any person who lacks the belief in God or gods is a weak atheist. Some weak atheists believe that God or gods may exist, but this is not a necessary characteristic of weak atheism. They do not believe that:

• God or gods do(es) exist, or
• God or gods do(es) not exist.

Weak atheism does not refer to a belief -- it refers to the lack thereof.

Strong atheism

Strong atheists are weak atheists who hold the belief that God or gods do(es) not exist. Therefore, strong atheists are those who lack the belief in the existence of God or gods, and hold the belief in the non-existence of God or gods.

The obvious difference between strong and weak atheism is that strong atheism implies belief, while weak atheism does not.

It must not be forgotten that since belief and non-belief are relative concepts, so too is atheism. Atheism is relative in that

• Person A may believe that gods W, X and Y do not exist, while merely lacking the belief in god Z.
• Person B may believe in the existence of god T, and believe in the non-existence of gods U and V

Thus A is both a weak and strong atheist, and B is both a theist and strong atheist.

More:
Further, if the lack belief in a God is not the common denominator between strong and weak atheism, then what is?

The lack of belief in a God or gods is the common denominator.

More:
Are you defining "God" as the christian God? Is that it? In which case, I can kinda see where you've wobbled off to, but still...

Nope.

More:
It would be of great help to me, and possibly Rian, if you would be more detailed in your definations of weak vs strong atheism.

Done, sort of.

More:
Is weak atheism tending towards agnosticism?

Well that depends on the ancillary beliefs of the weak atheist. If the weak atheist believes that the existence or non-existence of God or gods cannot be known, then we have an atheistic agnostic.

But then again, even a theist can be an agnostic...