Arwen in the Movie, How did you feel about her?

[afro-elf]

To Bropous and Nibs,

I over reached my bounds by stating the word fact.


But since there is the idea of re-embodiment of Elves in the SIL it does not seem far fetched that he could return to ME.

For the record I like the idea of 7-12 Balrogs with wings ( of shadow or flesh)

It make the Battles with Fingon, Feanor, Ecthelion, and Glorfindel so dramatic. the Lords of Light against the Greatest Servants of Melkor ( save Sauron)

It ennobles Glorfindel's character. For his sacrifice at Gondolin he is re-embodied in a greater form and is returned to ME. ( sounds like Gandalf )

[Arathorn]

A Glorfindel the White then...

[LuthienTinuviel]

First of all, why do you want Liv Tyler to die?

maybe im too desensitised, but where i come from, when someone says that, it simply means that they have a strong dislike for them.

don't be so g0d dam literal.

she can't help it if the adaption of the Character she plays doesn't fit your personal preferance.

no really. this is my opinion.
READ: O-PIN-YUN

you don't know that she 'thinks she's all that' because she is the daughter of Stephen Tyler and she has appeared in other films before, you have nothing definite and factual to back it up with.

once again, O-PIN-YUN
everyone is entitled to one.
don't be so mean.

[bropous]

you tell 'em, nightingale.....

[LuthienTinuviel]

sorry if i am being snotty tonight.
i think i said somewhere else that it has been a DAY.
nurg.
so anyone who reads my posts from today, take about half of the bitterness out.
except the one above what bropous posted.
that one.. gir, it made me mad.
i guess im not the only snotty one today...

[Comic Book Guy]

READ: O-PIN-YUN

I read it, and I don't understand the words 'O-PIN-YUN', so I guess I can't do anything about it.

once again, O-PIN-YUN
everyone is entitled to one.
don't be so mean.

The 'everyone is entitled to one' statement suggests that what you said was an opinion, you weren't saying your opinion, you were libelling her as if it was fact.

[LuthienTinuviel]

i was sounding it out for you, in case you needed help.

*sigh
that's the problem with typing things.
you can't tell how they are said.


i don't like to label people intentionally, but gee, i haven't liked any of her movies, and her air at awards shows is..
well, i can't find the words right now. but it's just like i would expect it to be.
i don't know her, no.
if i did and she turned out to be different, i assure you i would eat my words.
but until i do,
my opinion stands.

[Comic Book Guy]

i don't know her, no.
if i did and she turned out to be different, i assure you i would eat my words.
but until i do,
my opinion stands.

So by saying that you admit that your opinion is fraudulent, well, I believe that is just foolish.

[LuthienTinuviel]

IF she turned out to be different
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF !
i don't believe im wrong. i am saying that if i was proven to be so, i would accept it, not hide from it.
why do you have to pick apart everything i say?
my goodness, like a chicken you are!
scratch and pick scratch and pick.



FINE!
believe i am foolish.
i don't have to talk to you.
GOOD NIGHT SIR!

[olsonm]

The only thing I don't understand about the Arwen bashing is the perplexing devotion to Glorfindel. Dude had a cool name and hints at a cool past. Yeah, he probably was the elf at Gondolin but so what? He was a minor character in FoTR, let alone LoTR.
Someone please help me understand.

[Nibs]

I like to think that every one would realize that every post here is opinionated in some way (my opinion). Take everybody's comments here for all they're worth: an opinion (my opinion). We're all in the same boat here (my opinion). No one can see both sides to every issue (my opinion).

In conclusion, the Glorfindel issue is inconsequential - a matter of opinion (my opinion). Same thing with Arwen (my opinion). Don't attempt to correct some one's opinion, for it will not change (my opinion). And those, my friends, are my opinions, for all they're worth: an opinion (my opinion).

[Pailan]

Originally posted by olsonm

Someone please help me understand.

I have often wondered about this problem myself. The best I can guess is that it is a very strong reworking of a classic scene imbeded in people's imaginations.

The problems most folk seem to have with the movie version are (in no particular order.)

1- If you're gonna use Tolkien's ford scene why not do it the way it is written.

2- The way the scene is performed takes away from Frodo's character.

3- It also removes power from Elrond and Gandalf, re. the making of the flood.

4- The way the scene is executed brings Arwen too much to the fore front .

5- X number of people really dislike Liv Tyler as an actress (some to the point of taking it personally.)

6- Also X number of people were really looking forward to seeing a powerful Glorfindel being portrayed.

7- see number 5.

I think, olsonm, that about sums up most of the Arwen/Liv Tyler thing. I, of course, have no problem with this as was posted ages ago in this very thread.

[olsonm]

That's what I meant Nibs. I WANT to know peoples opinions on Glorfy so I can understand better.

Pailan, thanks

[LuthienTinuviel]

i don't mind the arwen stealing grlorfindel's role in FotR, becasue, your right, he is a minor character.
if he would have been introduced right then, it would have been confusing to poeple who didn't know what was going on. you get so much information in such a little time period, i can see why they would shift some things.
but couldn't they have just replaced one character?
i mean, i really really wouldn't have minded at all if ONLY glorfindel was replaced.
but frodo too? no, that weakens areas that should be strengthed
and strengthens areas that should be left as they were.
this has been blown up beyond my recognising, and now i feel as if i am defending myself against people like CBG who pick apart everything i say.
so, the reasons i give for keeping up with all of this: self defense of my right to voice myself in a way where i am not ATTACKED.
but, as i said in the last post, sometimes i just have to give up and walk away.
it isn't worth getting all my feathers ruffled.
it's a movie. a good movie. why else would my numbers tally 9?

[olsonm]

Hey Luth, great O-PIN-YUN!(sorry couldn't resist! )
But seriously that makes alot of sense.

[olsonm]

The "Frodo was robbed" angle is alot better than the Glorfy angle.
Still the scene at Weathertop was more important and the scene at the ford is it's parallel. It seems to me that people focus on the Ford scene because of their hatred of Liv. That in itself doesn't bother me but the Ford scene can only be interpreted in light of the Weathertop scene (in the book as well as the movie).

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Just to share my humble opinion, which is similiar to a lot of others here. . .
~I was fine with Arwen's expanded role, considering people need to know who she is when she marries Aragorn in RotK, and that her part in the books is really passive
~I, too, love hearing her speak elvish
~I didn't mind her finding them in the forest bit, I though it worked, excepting the wierd bit about her costume changing when she stops shining with that intense light
~Replacing Glorfindel was okay
~But stealing Frodo's defiance to the Ringwraiths was not
~And stealing her father's power, and the power of his ring, with making the water rise (which, if I remember correctly, was also Gandalf helping there. . .)
~Given the fact that they chose to have her spew defiance at the ringwraiths instead of Frodo, and there is nothing to be done about, I thought drawing the sword was fine, since she didn't try to use it or anything. Besides, I like the sword. I want it, it's really pretty. (I'm trying to collect swords. Next on my list is Sting. . .)
~I thought the choosing of immortality/mortality thing did a great job of portraying the fading of the elves
~I guess that's all. Except I really hope she doesn't show up at Helm's Deep.

[crickhollow]

Gandalf's only part in the matter was shaping the waves into horses. Slightly reminiscent of his talent with smoke rings...

[bropous]

I agree that Glorfindel ain't exactly a major character, but I would have preferred that the uninitiated audience see him as the first Elf they were exposed to rather than Arwen. I dunno, but the "daughter of the King of Elves" is what a lot of newbies may have thought as to her role. Glorfindel finding the Fellowship is more poignant to me because it makes the Nazgul that much more frightening that Elven Lords have to be dispatched to snatch the halflings from their clutches.

Arwen doesn't only weaken Frodo's character, she also weakens the Nazgul. Glorfindel, by juxtaposition to the Nazgul, makes them more of a threat because instead of courtiers and princesses searching the badlands, the Elven Lords searching just makes the threat to the hobbits all that much more real.

Just my EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO O-pin-yun.

[thisisthec]

[["i don't mind the arwen stealing grlorfindel's role in FotR, becasue, your right, he is a minor character.
if he would have been introduced right then, it would have been confusing to poeple who didn't know what was going on. you get so much information in such a little time period, i can see why they would shift some things. "]]

How is introducing Arwen at that point any less confusing? Why do people insist on using that excuse? In the story, Arwen is a minor character.

Arwen showing up in the middle of the woods emasculating Aragorn isn't confusing? Arwen mumbling something about grace and weeping over a hobbit she has never met isn't confusing? Arwen changing her clothes to appear to Frodo bathed in light and then changing back isn't confusing?

[["~I was fine with Arwen's expanded role, considering people need to know who she is when she marries Aragorn in RotK, and that her part in the books is really passive "]]

Her part in the books was passive because her marriage to Aragorn was a tiny footnote in the story.

I have an unrelated question for the scholars that has nothing to do with my loathing of that sequence of the film.

Arwen was around when Aragorn was born. She was already a mature elf. At what point did Aragorn go from too young to fair game? I don't remember from the appendix exactly when Aragorn began living in Rivendell. Did Arwen ever change his diaper?