Other Worlds Than These (Discussion Thread)

[Varnafindë]

Thank you, that's what I was looking for!
And you're right, some of those things aren't necessary.

Edit:
And perhaps you can have them all sit down in the next post?
I couldn't give them your acceptance, but I assume you'll give it, and then you can play Rivailen sitting down, even if she might choose only to listen

Edit #2:
Thank you again!
And as usual I enjoy putting in little bits of M-e history. Baru is a scholar, and it shows

[Aikanáro]

Would you believe, I didn't actually notice your edits until now. I just happened to decide that it would make sense for Rivailen to sit down with them.

I do love when Baru adds in relevant bits of history! Even if those particuilar extra bits of information about Orcs only serve to worry Ashkaio more.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Aikanáro

Would you believe, I didn't actually notice your edits until now. I just happened to decide that it would make sense for Rivailen to sit down with them.

Great minds think alike
Baru asked for it, and it made sense that you would then play it

And double-posting would have been better than editing for catching people's attention ...

I do love when Baru adds in relevant bits of history! Even if those particuilar extra bits of information about Orcs only serve to worry Ashkaio more.

Did you notice that she chose to say that the Orcs had been their enemies for generations, rather than for centuries or millennia? The length of those generations is then another matter and can still be left open for discussion

We seem to have gone straight to the heart of the matter, since she chose to ask about Yagluk rather than discuss philosophy first (I wonder who and what he is - I guess we will find out eventually).

There may still be time for philosophy, I suppose - they won't start for Minas Tirith until after lunch the next day, and they won't want to talk about Orcs for all of that time

[Aikanáro]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Did you notice that she chose to say that the Orcs had been their enemies for generations, rather than for centuries or millennia? The length of those generations is then another matter and can still be left open for discussion

Yes! Ashkaio's understanding of 'generations' is likely not quite the same as what Barufiniel meant. Although if she had said 'millennia' she would have only made him feel more hopeless than he does already, so perhaps she was being tactful.

There may still be time for philosophy, I suppose - they won't start for Minas Tirith until after lunch the next day, and they won't want to talk about Orcs for all of that time

Maybe! Baru is probably better-prepared to talk about comparative belief-systems across worlds than most, having met Aslan who has said (though maybe not to her!) that he's known by other names in other worlds. Whether those names include Eru, Maleldil and/or Ansuki, however...

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Aikanáro

Yes! Ashkaio's understanding of 'generations' is likely not quite the same as what Barufiniel meant. Although if she had said 'millennia' she would have only made him feel more hopeless than he does already, so perhaps she was being tactful.

She didn't want him to argue that millennia were impossible, that's the main reason why she didn't use the word. She jolly well knows that even centuries doesn't cover it by far. She knew that he would misunderstand, but such a small misunderstanding was worth avoiding another argument.
I ought to have let her comment (to herself) in the post - perhaps I should edit it in later?

Maybe! Baru is probably better-prepared to talk about comparative belief-systems across worlds than most, having met Aslan who has said (though maybe not to her!) that he's known by other names in other worlds. Whether those names include Eru, Maleldil and/or Ansuki, however...

She has already discussed this with her father, who has his own theory that Eru is the Emperor-beyond-the-Sea (so if Aslan meets Eru, he would simply say 'Hi, Dad!').
They didn't know then that there may be even more worlds where he could have different names - at that time, Aslan hadn't said it to the Pevensies yet, and certainly not to Baru or her father.

Maleldil and Christ are not different names from different worlds, though, only from different planets within the same world or universe. Our planet, Thulcandra, is the Silent Planet, which doesn't communicate with the other planets, and where Old Solar is a virtually unknown language.

[Midge]

Yes, it should be known that Maleldil is the name for Christ. Lewis mentioned God the Father once (I think) as "Maleldil's Father".

[Varnafindë]

Since my post was the last one, I added Nightshade's contribution to it rather than double-post.
Aerin can speak again now

[Midge]

Did we ever determine exactly when this took place? I remember someone saying it was a few years after LLL...

It looks like LLL happened three years after Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel left Middle-Earth (which is why I want to know)... so are we like, 10 years after the War of the Ring, 5 years?

Okay. Now that I realized we're closer than I thought, I edited it to be not as urgent, but I'd still like to get this one down "fo sho"!

[Varnafindë]

20 years.

Originally Posted by Aikanáro

Alright, so if it's okay with everyone I've decided on starting in Fourth Age rural Gondor, about twenty years after the end of the War of the Ring.

Perhaps this should go into the first post as well?

And does anyone remember when Aragorn's first son (Eldarion?) was born?

Another thing, Aika, is it best if we visit the king without playing canon characters?
An easy way of doing it is ending one post with Baru and Ashkaio going in to meet with the king, and starting the next post with them coming out again and talking together about what happened in there.

And as for Nightshade's and Aerin's conversation - the longer Baru and Ashkaio discuss philosophy, the longer the badger and her new friend will have to wait (post-wise) before they can enter the village.
Perhaps better to leave some of that philosophical discussion in the inn until the Narnian has arrived?

[Aikanáro]

Ack, sorry for the lack of posting, it's the last week of term and everything is very hectic. I'll try to get an Ashkaio/Rivailen post up tomorrow.

Unless anyone else particularly *wanted* to play Aragorn, I was going to gloss over that part and have Ashkaio either not actually manage to meet him or do so off-screen and just talk with Baru about what happened.

Maybe we can have the Orc discussion now and save the philosophy for after we've encountered the badger and her elf-friend? We can skip from the end of their evening conversation to them setting out the next day.

(That conversation may last a couple of posts longer, though- Rivailen's got to decide to go with them, too.)

[Varnafindë]

I'd say meet Aragorn offscreen, discuss Orcs but not philosophy, and skip to next day as soon as Rivailen has decided to join.

[Midge]

I think it would be great if we actually got to see Aragorn, even for a little bit. I think you should have Baru and Ashkaio walk into the throne room and show them greeting each other, then trail off a bit. But that's just my personal opinion.

Also, Varna, Nightshade was wanting to meet Queen Arwen. It makes sense for her to jump from Queen to King, I suppose, but Aerin and Nightshade hadn't really discussed King Aragorn the way they had Queen Arwen (had they? Did I forget something?)

Also also - the fact that Aerin really has no particular deed to do in Lorien, and that she knows Baru already and is slightly curious about all this portal junk... all that MIGHT convince her to go back to Minas Tirith. I think she might be getting to where she LIKES adventures after all.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

I think it would be great if we actually got to see Aragorn, even for a little bit. I think you should have Baru and Ashkaio walk into the throne room and show them greeting each other, then trail off a bit. But that's just my personal opinion.

I'd quite happily play both Aragorn and Arwen, if it's ok to play canon characters as such minor characters as they would be here. It might be fun to see them a little bit ...

Also, Varna, Nightshade was wanting to meet Queen Arwen. It makes sense for her to jump from Queen to King, I suppose, but Aerin and Nightshade hadn't really discussed King Aragorn the way they had Queen Arwen (had they? Did I forget something?)

No, you're right. Aerin told her that the Queen here was called Arwen, but no King was mentioned
Nightshade might lose interest when Baru tells her that she's in the wrong world, though

Also also - the fact that Aerin really has no particular deed to do in Lorien, and that she knows Baru already and is slightly curious about all this portal junk... all that MIGHT convince her to go back to Minas Tirith. I think she might be getting to where she LIKES adventures after all.

Oh good!

Btw - should we decide that they haven't met since LLL? I guess they haven't kept in touch, otherwise they might have known that they both are in the vicinity of Gondor.

[Midge]

No, I think that Aerin probably lost touch with most of the other LLL people when Magor took her sight-seeing. They might have heard vague rumors of each other, but they haven't really made an effort to hang out.

Yeah, when I heard that Baru and Ashkaio are going to see the King, I was like, Well that will work nicely for Nightshade, but then I remembered that all her Pevensie hopes would be dashed by Baru first. Also the royals will probably be completely confounded by Nightshade's question, while the Orcs are something much more worthwhile.

Just a side note: I know I wrote it, but I love Aerin's assumption that the Pevensies would be world-famous whatever world they are in. It kind of cracks me up.

EDIT: Trying to decide whether Aerin has met Arwen and Aragorn. She's of course older than Aragorn, so both of them would have been living in Lorien for a time while she was there, and she naturally knew Galadriel, being one of her messengers...

Okay, it's official. Aerin has met both Arwen and Aragorn, though she hasn't seen them for many years.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

Just a side note: I know I wrote it, but I love Aerin's assumption that the Pevensies would be world-famous whatever world they are in. It kind of cracks me up.

Me too! I also love it!

Okay, it's official. Aerin has met both Arwen and Aragorn, though she hasn't seen them for many years.

Yes, that makes sense. They have all been to Lorien and must have met there.

[Midge]

Yeah, I was originally going with Aerin being kind of a wall-flower elf, and she would be in awe of Aragorn and Arwen because they're all ruling Gondor, etc... and whether she would have visited them with Magor (she didn't - she wasn't that close to either of them and Magor had never met them).

Then I was like, Wait... she's 400+ years old, and Arwen had dwelt in Lorien at length and Aragorn had dwelt there long enough to meet Arwen there...

Even if she didn't really get to know them, she'd seen them both when they were NOT royalty and that's enough to not make her in complete awe of them.

Also, not really a big deal, but I'll be camping tomorrow and the next day, so probably I'll be real quiet for a couple of days!

[Varnafindë]

Good point about Aerin.

While you're camping, we can get the others forward till tomorrow's lunchtime. Aerin and Nightshade are at a natural break and needn't say anything else, and can arrive at the inn in their next post. I can post it if you're not back till then, but it may take Baru and the others some time to get there, too.

[Aikanáro]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

I'd quite happily play both Aragorn and Arwen, if it's ok to play canon characters as such minor characters as they would be here. It might be fun to see them a little bit ...

Sure, as it's a minor role, if you'd like to play them that'd be great!

Ashkaio's not quite right about Aragorn's position. The Tatheran title ensi would be better applied to Imrahil than Aragorn. It's close enough for their purposes, though.

Also, I'm totally reminded of the Wizard of Oz now that everyone's off to see the wizard...er...king.

Originally Posted by Midge

No, I think that Aerin probably lost touch with most of the other LLL people when Magor took her sight-seeing. They might have heard vague rumors of each other, but they haven't really made an effort to hang out.

Heh. According to what Curu and I were plotting years ago, at the time of Other Worlds there is probably a cute baby Avarin elf somewhere in Greenwood. Tabril and Abasi did keep in touch.

[feawen]

aww did our mystic elves hook up in the end!

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Aikanáro

Heh. According to what Curu and I were plotting years ago, at the time of Other Worlds there is probably a cute baby Avarin elf somewhere in Greenwood. Tabril and Abasi did keep in touch.

I like that!

And we need some reason for them to wait until lunch the next day before leaving (because that is when Aerin and Nightshade will turn up).
Do Baru and Rivailen have to go somewhere and warn people about a stray dragon?
Does Anahera know anything about the dragon?